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Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

cnn.com

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Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#151

Post by potato3732842 »

mulmen wrote: post #120
triceratops wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you think a trucker would risk life or even their truck in a highway robbery? That's an armed robbery whereas stealing from a robo-truck is more like breaking and entering. Robberies require the willingness and ability to commit violence. Having a human witness present means more risk of things going wrong, even if they don't intervene. I think all these factors prevent a lot of potential crimes.

These trucks are already covered in cameras. The self driving ones even more. How does this highway robbery even work? You force the autonomous truck to stop, take an angle grinder to the doors, then... unpack all the crates and boxes and hope you find something good that's also small enough to get away with? it just doesn't pass the sniff test for me.

>How does this highway robbery even work?

If you ask truckers they'll probably say something about blue lights and asking to see license and registration.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#152

Post by throwaway48476 »

monkaiju wrote: post #134
echelon wrote: post #127

Autonomous trucks will be fantastic. Truckers are compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines. It creates a lot of danger on the highway. It feels like autonomous vehicles could become one of America's superpowers. We have so many miles of road and interstate highway. Autonomous vehicles could double down on that strength and flip the underinvestment in passenger rail on its head, making it…

So instead of improve their conditions we just fire them? Sure that won't have any negative repercussions... That's even assuming this is actually remotely profitable compared to just using humans. Like a lot of this sort of automation it probably isn't, and it's true purpose is to be used as a threat against workers so they'll be even more "compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines"

Automation is expensive because the taxpayer subsidizes cheap labor. Get rid of the subsidy and automation will explode.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#153

Post by callc »

pedalpete wrote: post #126
A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote: post #125

I am of two minds about all this. On the one hand, I see the clear, long-term potential given that half the people I see while driving are somehow on their phone. From that perspective, it can't come soon enough. Some people need to be off the road. On the other, I am annoyed that we are effectively beta testing those on public roads with public paying the price.

Is it fair to say they are "beta testing" on public roads with the public paying the price after they've done four years with a supervised driver in the cab?

Definitely. Since human lives are at stake, it is fair to have an extremely high bar for safety.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#154

Post by meristohm »

brookst wrote: post #138
monkaiju wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of improve their conditions we just fire them? Sure that won't have any negative repercussions... That's even assuming this is actually remotely profitable compared to just using humans. Like a lot of this sort of automation it probably isn't, and it's true purpose is to be used as a threat against workers so they'll be even more "compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines"

I don’t get it. Say I’m building a company to ship self-driving trucks. I need hundreds of millions, maybe billions in capital. I need to line up purchasers. My fixed costs are huge and marginal lower, so I need volume. How, exactly, am I thinking about “threatening” existing drivers so they work longer hours and break more laws?

Are you entitled to get what you want to make DreamCo operate?

What are all the costs involved, and not just costs to you directly?

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#155

Post by hervature »

lenerdenator wrote: post #57
porphyra wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a national truck driver shortage, with a particular lack of young drivers [1]. Perhaps automation technology will become widespread just in time for the current generation of drivers to retire. [1] https://www.iru.org/news-resources/newsroom/worse-you-though...

"Why is this the case? Why are there so few women and young truck drivers? How can we get more of them behind the wheel?" Well, it's like literally everything else. Pay more.

I know this is a convenient meme and narrative but this post is literally the consequence of having to pay more for labor, you get more people trying to automate it. We're talking about logistics, probably the most important component of the economy. Trucking salaries are probably the closest thing to "market clearing wages" that exists. Pay more -> more expensive shipping -> less demand to ship things -> lower wages.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#156

Post by socalgal2 »

monkaiju wrote: post #134
echelon wrote: post #127

Autonomous trucks will be fantastic. Truckers are compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines. It creates a lot of danger on the highway. It feels like autonomous vehicles could become one of America's superpowers. We have so many miles of road and interstate highway. Autonomous vehicles could double down on that strength and flip the underinvestment in passenger rail on its head, making it…

So instead of improve their conditions we just fire them? Sure that won't have any negative repercussions... That's even assuming this is actually remotely profitable compared to just using humans. Like a lot of this sort of automation it probably isn't, and it's true purpose is to be used as a threat against workers so they'll be even more "compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines"

> So instead of improve their conditions we just fire them?

Yes? We got rid of telephohe operators. We got rid of "computers" (people who compute). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_(occupation) We effectively got rid of horse shoe makers, liveries, etc...

> Sure that won't have any negative repercussions...

Does it suck for the truck drivers. Yes. Does that mean we should give them busy work even though their job can be automated? No. We don't know what the reprocussions will be. We do know, from 100% of past experience, that automating something opened new opportunties that ultimately resulted in more jobs that before. Whether that will be true this time as well no one has any idea.

The usual example is textile creation vs fashion. The loom put people who hand weave cloth out of business. But the abundance of cheap cloth created 100x the jobs in cloth making and fashion. It's why you probably have more than 3 shirts in your house/apartment.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#157

Post by calmbell »

gazook89 wrote: post #131

> help bolster a critical sector of the American economy, which often can't find enough drivers. They can find enough drivers, but won’t pay them enough or give them any dignity. The industry has a 90% turnover rate per year. So obviously they are finding drivers all the time…they just don’t keep them.

Here is an article from 2022 that does a great job of explaining the issue: https://www.columnblog.com/p/us-media-celebrates-letting-18-...

"Cut to 2022. Wages are still down 30% to 50% in key markets, and the job is as dangerous and taxing as ever. Naturally, the pool of people wanting the job would reduce accordingly. Thus, when demand for truckers increases, there’s a “labor shortage.” But, as Peter Greene noted in Forbes when debunking a related myth of “teacher shortages” in 2019, it’s not a lack of willing workers: It’s a severe lack of incentives—wages, unions, benefits—needed to entice workers to take on the difficult work"

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#158

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 »

yunwal wrote: post #145
A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is a fair question to ask. I personally might be too influenced by what I see in gaming these days, where the game arrives in unfinished state. The difference there is, there are some clear ways of telling they are unfinished ( or finished ). How can we tell in this case? Do we wait for accident reports?

What would be a better indicator to you than 4 years of driving records?

"In four years of practice hauls the trucks’ technology has delivered over 10,000 customer loads. As of Thursday, the company’s self-driving tech has completed over 1,200 miles without a human in the truck."

It would be a start, but we don't seem to have that. Or, at least, the article does not have them. What we do have is a press release and an indication that the load was delivered. No indication of the issues that arose. Just the simple fact that no issues are mentioned suggests there is a massive amount of information that is being omitted, because, I am sure you will agree, it is close to impossible for any kind of rig to run for 4 years and not have issues.

edit:

Tangent. I am starting to feel real fatigue from seeing those gaping holes and just about all articles I read each day. Even FT had some weird omissions in something I saw the other day. And that is just one problem. It gets even worse, when you read something you have some expertise in and the author gets it very, very wrong.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#159

Post by mangodrunk »

throwaway48476 wrote: post #148
encrypted_bird wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. This is no better than that terribly disingenuous argument that "nobody wants to work". No, we'd love to work. But we also value not starving to death and having some semblance of work-life balance.

Someone dug into newspaper archives and found an example of the "nobody wants to work anymore" phrase every year for the last 100 years. The phrase likely predates the printing press. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32161426

Thanks for sharing. Here’s the snopes article confirming the articles referenced: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/nobody-wants-to-work-anymo...
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