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Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

cnn.com

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Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#141

Post by iancmceachern »

brookst wrote: post #138
monkaiju wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of improve their conditions we just fire them? Sure that won't have any negative repercussions... That's even assuming this is actually remotely profitable compared to just using humans. Like a lot of this sort of automation it probably isn't, and it's true purpose is to be used as a threat against workers so they'll be even more "compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines"

I don’t get it. Say I’m building a company to ship self-driving trucks. I need hundreds of millions, maybe billions in capital. I need to line up purchasers. My fixed costs are huge and marginal lower, so I need volume. How, exactly, am I thinking about “threatening” existing drivers so they work longer hours and break more laws?

Play out the same thought experiment but from the truckers point of view.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#142

Post by Ygg2 »

echelon wrote: post #135
monkaiju wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of improve their conditions we just fire them? Sure that won't have any negative repercussions... That's even assuming this is actually remotely profitable compared to just using humans. Like a lot of this sort of automation it probably isn't, and it's true purpose is to be used as a threat against workers so they'll be even more "compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines"

> assuming this is actually remotely profitable Why wouldn't it be? > instead of improve their conditions I wouldn't want to drive a truck. To be frank, I really don't want to answer Jira tickets and write plumbing code either. I sincerely hope that none of what most of us do today has to be a job in fifty years.

> Why wouldn't it be?

My debt is your asset, and vice versa. Tell me, what does the autonomous truck drink? Or eat?

The less you pay the driver the less money does driver have to buy whatever he is carrying.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#143

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 »

pedalpete wrote: post #126
A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote: post #125

I am of two minds about all this. On the one hand, I see the clear, long-term potential given that half the people I see while driving are somehow on their phone. From that perspective, it can't come soon enough. Some people need to be off the road. On the other, I am annoyed that we are effectively beta testing those on public roads with public paying the price.

Is it fair to say they are "beta testing" on public roads with the public paying the price after they've done four years with a supervised driver in the cab?

I think it is a fair question to ask. I personally might be too influenced by what I see in gaming these days, where the game arrives in unfinished state. The difference there is, there are some clear ways of telling they are unfinished ( or finished ).

How can we tell in this case? Do we wait for accident reports?

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#144

Post by XorNot »

triceratops wrote: post #83
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if a human driver is concerned, they can choose not to drive during this period of time Self-driving cars are currently proving safer than manually-piloted ones. There isn’t a good reason to segregate traffic like this. > what would stop a few cars passage in front of the truck and helping themselves to the cargo Why do you think a trucker would risk life or even their truck in a highway robbery?

> Why do you think a trucker would risk life or even their truck in a highway robbery? That's an armed robbery whereas stealing from a robo-truck is more like breaking and entering. Robberies require the willingness and ability to commit violence. Having a human witness present means more risk of things going wrong, even if they don't intervene. I think all these factors prevent a lot of potential crimes.

No one cares if a human isn't involved because it becomes a line item on your logistics costs.

You simply iterate on the problem and see if the percentage goes down.

Not to mention you're proposing somehow making off with the contents of a semi truck in a covert way, even though it's so much stuff if takes a semi-truck to move.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#145

Post by yunwal »

A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote: post #143
pedalpete wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it fair to say they are "beta testing" on public roads with the public paying the price after they've done four years with a supervised driver in the cab?

I think it is a fair question to ask. I personally might be too influenced by what I see in gaming these days, where the game arrives in unfinished state. The difference there is, there are some clear ways of telling they are unfinished ( or finished ). How can we tell in this case? Do we wait for accident reports?

What would be a better indicator to you than 4 years of driving records?

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#146

Post by Noumenon72 »

dangus wrote: post #140
monkaiju wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of improve their conditions we just fire them? Sure that won't have any negative repercussions... That's even assuming this is actually remotely profitable compared to just using humans. Like a lot of this sort of automation it probably isn't, and it's true purpose is to be used as a threat against workers so they'll be even more "compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines"

Isn’t it true that truck drivers are the most common profession in basically every state? I think it’s “funny” how corporate leaders in basically every industry are enthusiastically barreling toward a world in which they have no employed customers to buy their products created by their automated robot workforce. Nobody in politics is coming close to addressing the societal problems that are incoming in the near futur…

Agriculturists enthusiastically barreled toward a world with no employed farmers to buy their food, and the societal problems took care of themselves because having lots of cheap food is good.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#147

Post by bayarearefugee »

porphyra wrote: post #7
lenerdenator wrote: post #5

Hmmmmm. So we're going to have a lot of people potentially unemployed because of this...

There's a national truck driver shortage, with a particular lack of young drivers [1]. Perhaps automation technology will become widespread just in time for the current generation of drivers to retire. [1] https://www.iru.org/news-resources/newsroom/worse-you-though...

It won't just be truckers, there's always follow-on impact like people who work in diners along these routes, etc.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#148

Post by throwaway48476 »

encrypted_bird wrote: post #136
gazook89 wrote: post #131

> help bolster a critical sector of the American economy, which often can't find enough drivers. They can find enough drivers, but won’t pay them enough or give them any dignity. The industry has a 90% turnover rate per year. So obviously they are finding drivers all the time…they just don’t keep them.

Thank you. This is no better than that terribly disingenuous argument that "nobody wants to work". No, we'd love to work. But we also value not starving to death and having some semblance of work-life balance.

Someone dug into newspaper archives and found an example of the "nobody wants to work anymore" phrase every year for the last 100 years. The phrase likely predates the printing press.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32161426

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#149

Post by Spooky23 »

monkaiju wrote: post #134
echelon wrote: post #127

Autonomous trucks will be fantastic. Truckers are compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines. It creates a lot of danger on the highway. It feels like autonomous vehicles could become one of America's superpowers. We have so many miles of road and interstate highway. Autonomous vehicles could double down on that strength and flip the underinvestment in passenger rail on its head, making it…

So instead of improve their conditions we just fire them? Sure that won't have any negative repercussions... That's even assuming this is actually remotely profitable compared to just using humans. Like a lot of this sort of automation it probably isn't, and it's true purpose is to be used as a threat against workers so they'll be even more "compelled to work without sleep to finish routes with tight deadlines"

My brother is in this business. There’s overlapping jurisdictions that shady operators leverage hard to squeeze more out of people and equipment.

Chinatown busses are the perfect example, they’d run routes designed to avoid federal jurisdiction and adopt routes and schedules to avoid weigh stations and routine inspection. Busses were unsafe and drivers unlicensed in many cases. Most were owned by Chinese mafia organizations and killed people. When they weren’t doing that, they were huge human trafficking operations.

The federal motor carrier safety administration had a robust, science based program to improve safety and improve conditions in most scenarios. My understanding is that 80% of the staff was fired and resigned, so it’s a Wild West environment. The advice I was given was avoid the busy trucking corridors (I-81/85/95) at night.

Re: Driverless semis have started running regular longhaul routes

#150

Post by dangus »

Noumenon72 wrote: post #146
dangus wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t it true that truck drivers are the most common profession in basically every state? I think it’s “funny” how corporate leaders in basically every industry are enthusiastically barreling toward a world in which they have no employed customers to buy their products created by their automated robot workforce. Nobody in politics is coming close to addressing the societal problems that are incoming in the near futur…

Agriculturists enthusiastically barreled toward a world with no employed farmers to buy their food, and the societal problems took care of themselves because having lots of cheap food is good.

You’re glossing over the great amount of physical violence and unrest that happened during the period of industrialization.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_violence_in_the_United_S...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haymarket_affair

All of that unrest eventually resulted in the new deal. We have had relative peace in the postwar period thanks to a lot of pain being resolved over a long period of time, but that lack of friction is not guaranteed to last forever.

I would argue that America’s backslide into the election of a reactionary, dare I say fascist government is all about declining prosperity.

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