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Sexual Harassment at DefCon (and Other Hacker Cons)
61–70 of 267 posts
Re: Sexual Harassment at DefCon (and Other Hacker Cons)
#62Not specific to hacker culture, but I always felt there was a bit of a double standard when it comes to alpha male behavior. Women are attracted to aggressive men. Women like men who take charge. Women like men who are the initiators. Now obviously there is a line that crosses over into sexual harassment, but the fact is that men who behave aggressively are the ones who succeed in sexual pursuits most often. It's alm…
People like interesting, dynamic partners.
Not being an awkward schlump is attractive. Being an asshole is not so much.
http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.sht...
Re: Sexual Harassment at DefCon (and Other Hacker Cons)
#63Not specific to hacker culture, but I always felt there was a bit of a double standard when it comes to alpha male behavior. Women are attracted to aggressive men. Women like men who take charge. Women like men who are the initiators. Now obviously there is a line that crosses over into sexual harassment, but the fact is that men who behave aggressively are the ones who succeed in sexual pursuits most often. It's alm…
Behavior like grabbing a strangers crotch from behind and disappearing before she has a chance to turn around "works"?
No, it most certainly does not. There is a big difference between being confident and showing leadership, and groping strangers in public.
And the "agressive, alpha male" (which is a term that I hate, by the way) persona doesn't work for everyone, either. I know plenty of women for whom that's a huge turn off.
> It's almost as if when the girl is attracted to the guy, it's flirting, but when she isn't, it's creepy/sexual harassment.
It's creepy and harassment if it's creepy and harassment. You can flirt without grabbing someone's crotch, without trying to lick them without permission. There are also more appropriate venues for flirting, and less appropriate venues. At a hacker conference, people are generally more interested in talking about hacking and less about flirting; and in particular, there are many women there who will already feel a little ill at ease and marginalized due to how few of them there are relative to the men, who might not take kindly to many people treating them more as a potential date than a peer. At a singles bar? Flirting is probably more appropriate.
And yes, there is a certain degree to which some behavior will be interpreted as flirtation by some people and creepy by others. To avoid that, it's good to try to cultivate a certain sense of self-awareness, and when in doubt, err on the side of not being creepy.
Re: Sexual Harassment at DefCon (and Other Hacker Cons)
#64Not specific to hacker culture, but I always felt there was a bit of a double standard when it comes to alpha male behavior. Women are attracted to aggressive men. Women like men who take charge. Women like men who are the initiators. Now obviously there is a line that crosses over into sexual harassment, but the fact is that men who behave aggressively are the ones who succeed in sexual pursuits most often. It's alm…
A lot of things "work" with women. But creeps act like they do because they're horny losers, not because they're having so much success with it. Anyway, the whole alpha male debate is besides the point. Also, I think you're confusing aggressiveness with not being a complete wimp. I often see women being attracted to dominant, strong, self-confident guys. Aggressive ones? Not so much. "It's almost as if when the girl…
It's sad that these people pose such little concern about the women so much as jealousy that they can't be hostile towards women and "get away with it".
Re: Sexual Harassment at DefCon (and Other Hacker Cons)
#65I wasn't sure what to think of the red/yellow cards when I first heard about them, but the suggestion that it should be bystanders them giving out is awesome . Everything we know about human psychology suggests that a disapproving peer group is a strong behavioral deterrent.
Does red get you kicked out of the con or something?
If not, this would turn into a game of who can collect the most harassment cards.
If so, then people could simple kick out people they don't like.
Re: Sexual Harassment at DefCon (and Other Hacker Cons)
#66Not specific to hacker culture, but I always felt there was a bit of a double standard when it comes to alpha male behavior. Women are attracted to aggressive men. Women like men who take charge. Women like men who are the initiators. Now obviously there is a line that crosses over into sexual harassment, but the fact is that men who behave aggressively are the ones who succeed in sexual pursuits most often. It's alm…
I have to say your comment hits home for me. It's my personal opinion/observation that > the fact is that men who behave aggressively are the ones who succeed in sexual pursuits most often. I have myself seen the so called "bad boy" attitude succeed in a number of situations in real life. This just gives wrong signal to other men. The so called double standard has no easy solution. Or an easy way to recognize it eith…
"I have myself seen the so called "bad boy" attitude succeed in a number of situations in real life."
Those "bad boys" are interesting in ways that you are not.
Still, who cares if you get the girl? You're not entitled to date any/every woman. You do not get to because you want to.
Re: Sexual Harassment at DefCon (and Other Hacker Cons)
#67All of this could be avoided if guys would just follow the advice in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBVuAGFcGKY
1. Be Handsome 2. Be Attractive 3. Don't Be Unattractive
Re: Sexual Harassment at DefCon (and Other Hacker Cons)
#68Not specific to hacker culture, but I always felt there was a bit of a double standard when it comes to alpha male behavior. Women are attracted to aggressive men. Women like men who take charge. Women like men who are the initiators. Now obviously there is a line that crosses over into sexual harassment, but the fact is that men who behave aggressively are the ones who succeed in sexual pursuits most often. It's alm…
Ahhh...the good guy / jog myth.
Re: Sexual Harassment at DefCon (and Other Hacker Cons)
#69I wasn't sure what to think of the red/yellow cards when I first heard about them, but the suggestion that it should be bystanders them giving out is awesome . Everything we know about human psychology suggests that a disapproving peer group is a strong behavioral deterrent.
Honestly, I find the cards incredibly weird. I can imagine a class of 10-year-olds using them, but adults?
Re: Sexual Harassment at DefCon (and Other Hacker Cons)
#70It sounds like a lot of this stuff happens at bars during events, not at the events themselves. How common is this behavior at bars in general, independent from a hacker con? Also: some of the girls that I know who are hackers are offended at the idea of red/yellow cards. The implication there seems to be that they're helpless, and need somebody to swoop in and save them. That, at least to some of my girl friends, is…
From a feminist perspective, it's not very empowering to a woman to have to resort to props and other crazy schemes to get unscrupulous men to fuck off. Men don't have to do it, why should women.
I think it'd be helpful to identify why this problem exists in the tech field. Is there a chicken and egg situation where more women in tech would solve these problems, but something about tech prevents more women getting involved?