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ViaCycle (YC S12) Is A Zipcar For Bikes, Coming To San Francisco Soon

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Re: ViaCycle (YC S12) Is A Zipcar For Bikes, Coming To San Francisco Soon

#51

Post by don_draper »

AkThhhpppt wrote: post #39
jellicle wrote: post #27

I love the idea, but it's doomed to failure. I live in a city with a bike-sharing system. It's deeply unprofitable and exists only at the sufferance of the city government. There are a number of flaws. Number 1 is that people who ride bikes don't rent them, they own them. For $100 anyone can purchase a bicycle that will last indefinitely and be available 24/7/365. Number 2 is that people vandalize the shit out of bic…

Counterpoints: http://en.velib.paris.fr/ http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/14808.aspx http://www.citybikes.se/en/ http://www.dublinbikes.ie/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bixi

Also, they add benefits to a city that are not easily quantified. They make the city look like a nice place to live, which increases property values, and attracts labor to the workforce. (They still might not be worth it from a taxpayer's viewpoint.)

Re: ViaCycle (YC S12) Is A Zipcar For Bikes, Coming To San Francisco Soon

#52

Post by graeme »

micheljansen wrote: post #50
jellicle wrote: post #27

I love the idea, but it's doomed to failure. I live in a city with a bike-sharing system. It's deeply unprofitable and exists only at the sufferance of the city government. There are a number of flaws. Number 1 is that people who ride bikes don't rent them, they own them. For $100 anyone can purchase a bicycle that will last indefinitely and be available 24/7/365. Number 2 is that people vandalize the shit out of bic…

I think the success or failure depends on too many factors to just say "It won't work" based on the idea alone. I remember that just a few years ago (in 2000), Amsterdam aborted a pilot program for public bicycles, because they all got stolen or vandalised [1]. Since 2006 a new nationwide scheme is being operated by the country's largest train company and it's doing great. I currently live in London and the Barclays…

Montreal has the same system (Bixi), with exactly the same sturdy features as the London system. Some local management issues aside, the system is running quite smoothly.

It's a stretch to say "This will never work!" when something already is working, and avoiding the specific issues complained about.

Re: ViaCycle (YC S12) Is A Zipcar For Bikes, Coming To San Francisco Soon

#53

Post by jack-r-abbit »

jellicle wrote: post #27

I love the idea, but it's doomed to failure. I live in a city with a bike-sharing system. It's deeply unprofitable and exists only at the sufferance of the city government. There are a number of flaws. Number 1 is that people who ride bikes don't rent them, they own them. For $100 anyone can purchase a bicycle that will last indefinitely and be available 24/7/365. Number 2 is that people vandalize the shit out of bic…

I was thinking the same... although with a little less doom & gloom. One of the reasons ZipCar, et al. have been successful is they exist in places where owning a car is impractical (infrequent use vs. price tag, upkeep & parking fees) so short term, ad hoc rental is optimal. If you remove the costs (since bikes can be pretty cheap, low maintenance and easy to store in your domicile) infrequent use does not make bike ownership nearly as impractical as car ownership. I could see moderate success in a tourist market. I could see jumping on BART into SF and renting a bike to ride around for the day. Those services exist but not in a "self serve" capacity like ViaCycle.

Re: ViaCycle (YC S12) Is A Zipcar For Bikes, Coming To San Francisco Soon

#54

Post by personlurking »

AkThhhpppt wrote: post #39
jellicle wrote: post #27

I love the idea, but it's doomed to failure. I live in a city with a bike-sharing system. It's deeply unprofitable and exists only at the sufferance of the city government. There are a number of flaws. Number 1 is that people who ride bikes don't rent them, they own them. For $100 anyone can purchase a bicycle that will last indefinitely and be available 24/7/365. Number 2 is that people vandalize the shit out of bic…

Counterpoints: http://en.velib.paris.fr/ http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/14808.aspx http://www.citybikes.se/en/ http://www.dublinbikes.ie/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bixi

While I wish I could comment in depth on the subject, I will add Rio de Janeiro to the list. Here, we have orange Itaú (a bank that sponsors the program) bicycles throughout the city and they're quite popular. You sign up online and they have some sort of integration with your smartphone. I was recently informed they are R$10 (US$5) per month on a monthly plan. The downside is, also from what I've heard, you have to dock them every hour and take another bike.

Here's a picture of them

http://www.bikehype.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/alugue...

and a supporting article

http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/global-observer/take-two-for...

Re: ViaCycle (YC S12) Is A Zipcar For Bikes, Coming To San Francisco Soon

#55

Post by smalter »

micheljansen wrote: post #50
jellicle wrote: post #27

I love the idea, but it's doomed to failure. I live in a city with a bike-sharing system. It's deeply unprofitable and exists only at the sufferance of the city government. There are a number of flaws. Number 1 is that people who ride bikes don't rent them, they own them. For $100 anyone can purchase a bicycle that will last indefinitely and be available 24/7/365. Number 2 is that people vandalize the shit out of bic…

I think the success or failure depends on too many factors to just say "It won't work" based on the idea alone. I remember that just a few years ago (in 2000), Amsterdam aborted a pilot program for public bicycles, because they all got stolen or vandalised [1]. Since 2006 a new nationwide scheme is being operated by the country's largest train company and it's doing great. I currently live in London and the Barclays…

Heh, the cure sounds worse than the disease. "Make the bikes so unpleasant that no will want to steal them (or use them)."

I agree that there is room for creativity here. There are so many things to try. For instance, I noticed that ViaCycle seems to be piloting on college campuses. Might it be possible to put docking stations _inside_ of academic buildings, requiring a college ID swipe to get in, and possibly being within viewing distance of a building attendant?

Re: ViaCycle (YC S12) Is A Zipcar For Bikes, Coming To San Francisco Soon

#56

Post by maartenscholl »

Concerning the design of the bikes, I think there is still room for improvement. The designers can look at the design of the Public Transportation Bike ("OV-Fiets") in the Netherlands[1] which was a major success in a country where there already were more bikes than people before it's introduction.

For a bike that is available 24 you would want a bicycle lamp on the front with a dynamo instead of just reflectors. This is a safety concern because reflectors have proven to be unreliable to signal other road users.

The bike doesn't have any mudguards but I suspect the weather in SF allows that :).

The carrier on the back wheel doesn't look that sturdy and there is a large gap in the middle. A front rack to place heavier cargo on could be a benefit.

What about bright colors so the bike stands out?

[1]http://www.ov-fiets.nl/binaries/content/gallery/OV-fiets/nie...

Re: ViaCycle (YC S12) Is A Zipcar For Bikes, Coming To San Francisco Soon

#57

Post by jhuckestein »

kazevedo wrote: post #22
jhuckestein wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, and logistical problems like that are what gets me excited about this. In grad school I did research on a on increasing the average vehicle occupancy in cities and we took a lot of inspiration from the bike sharing programs. Have you considered offering dynamic pricing based on the likelihood that the bike will be used in the near future? I.e. riding into the city should be cheaper than riding out of the city in…

Absolutely! Dynamic pricing is something we're really excited about. It's still a young idea, but even large systems like Velib have implemented simple incentives for people who ride against traffic flow. Since our bikes always know where they are, we can be much more proactive about balancing each system. Edit: a few of us did graduate transportation research as well, your work sounds cool. Is it published anywhere?

Nope, never got published. Our first project in grad school was writing a report on "The service centric car of 2020" [1] (don't read, it's bad). I spun off a project called "Sustainable urban mobility in the megacities of the future" with a friend and we both landed scholarships to do research in the US and publish a paper on it. Then I got involved with startups and was never heard or seen again in academia (I think I'm technically "on leave" from school)

[1] http://www.cdtm.de/events/entrepreneurship-camp/about-cdtm/b...

Re: ViaCycle (YC S12) Is A Zipcar For Bikes, Coming To San Francisco Soon

#58

Post by msrpotus »

smalter wrote: post #55
micheljansen wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the success or failure depends on too many factors to just say "It won't work" based on the idea alone. I remember that just a few years ago (in 2000), Amsterdam aborted a pilot program for public bicycles, because they all got stolen or vandalised [1]. Since 2006 a new nationwide scheme is being operated by the country's largest train company and it's doing great. I currently live in London and the Barclays…

Heh, the cure sounds worse than the disease. "Make the bikes so unpleasant that no will want to steal them (or use them)." I agree that there is room for creativity here. There are so many things to try. For instance, I noticed that ViaCycle seems to be piloting on college campuses. Might it be possible to put docking stations _inside_ of academic buildings, requiring a college ID swipe to get in, and possibly being…

Having used the London bikes when I visited, they really aren't so bad. Not as good as the bike I have at home, but they do everything you'd want out of a beater bike. No one is racing them or anything, just going from one place to another.

Re: ViaCycle (YC S12) Is A Zipcar For Bikes, Coming To San Francisco Soon

#59

Post by msrpotus »

kazevedo wrote: post #17
graeme wrote: post #6

Interesting. I'm in Montreal, the birthplace of Bixi, which runs the London bike share program, and the upcoming NYC program as well as many others. Works fairly well, but apart from the cost the docking stations cost the city parking revenue. One major administrative cost is moving bikes around. People tend to take them downtown during the day, and out of the town at night. Even if you don't need docks, you still ha…

Definitely true. Redistribution is always a hurdle, though with viaCycle's realtime data, we can do some very cool things with incentives and pricing to help the system balance itself. Bixi takes a lot of parking spots partly because finding space for large stations is difficult. By using existing bike racks, we can often put in bikes without modifying anything. Plus, although parking is lucrative, replacing room for…

Does that actually work to balance out demand enough? I know Paris tried to do the same thing but found that incentives weren't enough. Then again, that was the city government, so they may have been more constrained in terms of how large the incentives can be than you.

Re: ViaCycle (YC S12) Is A Zipcar For Bikes, Coming To San Francisco Soon

#60

Post by mahyarm »

jellicle wrote: post #27

I love the idea, but it's doomed to failure. I live in a city with a bike-sharing system. It's deeply unprofitable and exists only at the sufferance of the city government. There are a number of flaws. Number 1 is that people who ride bikes don't rent them, they own them. For $100 anyone can purchase a bicycle that will last indefinitely and be available 24/7/365. Number 2 is that people vandalize the shit out of bic…

I know of so many bike theft stories from my friends in SF, that this program is attractive because of those stories. It won't be your typical $100 bike-shaped-object and for $80/yr you can avoid all the bike theft, ownership and maintenance costs and stress.
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