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Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

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21–30 of 248 posts

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#21

> Grahn said TikTok has “has never received a request for European user data from the Chinese authorities, and has never provided European user data to them.” lol, ok. Chinese intelligence services must be completely asleep at the wheel (doubtful)

I am convinced they would absolutely tell the truth if they had handed over any data to the Chinese government and would never just lie about it to protect their business interests /s

I find the exact wording believable enough. There was never a request, the Chinese government just accesses the data they need without a request.

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#22

'massive' -- by which standards? It is high time we got used to companies being fined a reasonable fraction of their revenue. And TikTok's global revenue last year alone was estimated at $20 billion to $26 billion [1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/17/technology/tiktok-ban-byt...

What bearing does their global revenue have on what Ireland has any jurisdiction to fine them? I'm not a fan or user of TikTok, but what they earn on other continents is none of Ireland's business.

Ireland was acting on behalf of the EU, so at the very least the fine should be substantial relative to EU revenues.

The law does say global revenues, and I think that is a deterrent to treating fines as just a cost of doing business.

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#23

'massive' -- by which standards? It is high time we got used to companies being fined a reasonable fraction of their revenue. And TikTok's global revenue last year alone was estimated at $20 billion to $26 billion [1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/17/technology/tiktok-ban-byt...

What bearing does their global revenue have on what Ireland has any jurisdiction to fine them? I'm not a fan or user of TikTok, but what they earn on other continents is none of Ireland's business.

It's a case involving their European customers.

If you do business in Europe, there's a bunch of (good!) privacy regulations you have to comply with. One of these is that you're not allowed to transfer the data to a jurisdiction that doesn't follow equivalent protections to the GDPR[0]. TikTok transferred European user data to their Chinese servers, which is a pretty obvious no-go, since the Chinese government is an authoritarian watchdog that inherently can't guarantee these protections (as the GDPR also applies to transferring data to the government.)

Ireland has jurisdiction because the EU offers something called the "one stop shop" concept, where a foreign company can declare that they have EU headquarters in a specific member state, and from that point on the only EU regulations they have to directly worry about are how they're implemented in that country in specific[1]. Every major tech company is therefore in Ireland because the country is small enough to essentially steamroll local politicians with lobby money, leading to very lax enforcement until the EU starts applying pressure.[2]

[0]: This also causes issues with data transfers to the US, and in the most extreme interpretation, makes it so that you probably can't do business with both Europe and the US at the same time in the first place. This is because of the CLOUD act, which goes across jurisdictions and is something the US government can use to compel any service provider to hand over data.

[1]: Of course, a country can still have it's own laws that a company can run afoul of on top of that.

[2]: Other countries with this issue are Luxembourg (Fintech companies love Luxembourg because they can just hire all the good lawyers, meaning you can't negotiate legal disputes there effectively) and the Netherlands (which is a EU-based tax haven for large corporations that aren't in either sector.)

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#24

'massive' -- by which standards? It is high time we got used to companies being fined a reasonable fraction of their revenue. And TikTok's global revenue last year alone was estimated at $20 billion to $26 billion [1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/17/technology/tiktok-ban-byt...

What bearing does their global revenue have on what Ireland has any jurisdiction to fine them? I'm not a fan or user of TikTok, but what they earn on other continents is none of Ireland's business.

A fine is supposed to be a deterrent to illegal behaviour. Much like a fine of 100€ for speeding is unlikely to dissuade someone driving a Ferrari, a fine directed towards a company needs to be proportional to that company's revenue, or else it will just be factored as a cost of doing business.

How much value did tiktok derive from flaunting these privacy laws? It's not entirely unlikely that it was less than 530M€.

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#25
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The relationship between EU and US is certainly closer than China

Questionable whether that will still be true in 4 years. At least China can still be expected to operate rationally.

Really? A nice rational genocide or two?

China is an expansionist dictatorship. It would be ridiculous to suggest it is more trustworthy than the US.

The US is actually acting rationally IMO. People just look at headlines and do not dig into the reasons. You might not agree with the reasoning, but it is not irrational. For example the tariffs clearly follow from arguments made by Trump's appointees (such as Bessent and Marin) even before the election, and definitely before being appointed.

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#26

'massive' -- by which standards? It is high time we got used to companies being fined a reasonable fraction of their revenue. And TikTok's global revenue last year alone was estimated at $20 billion to $26 billion [1]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/17/technology/tiktok-ban-byt...

What bearing does their global revenue have on what Ireland has any jurisdiction to fine them? I'm not a fan or user of TikTok, but what they earn on other continents is none of Ireland's business.

Absurd. Damages need to be inline with 'how to force corrective behaviour'. They are to be designed to FORCE the company to change how they are behaving.

If their global revenue was $1000, and the local revenue is $1, fining them $0.10 isn't going to help much.

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#27
Now, I'm still waiting for those watchdogs to fine Facebook, Google, Apple, Microsoft, and bazillion other companies over data transfer to the USA.

Just kidding, I know it won't happen.

But at least paying some taxes in Ireland should be possible, shouldn't it?

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What bearing does their global revenue have on what Ireland has any jurisdiction to fine them? I'm not a fan or user of TikTok, but what they earn on other continents is none of Ireland's business.

The Irish regulator is acting on behalf of the EU as TikTok European head quarters are in Ireland. And in terms of jurisdiction - it's a bit like you visiting Ireland on holiday and committing a crime - and then arguing they have no jurisdiction over you as you are only there for 2 weeks.

A more apt comparison is that you get a fine for speeding abroad, and argue that you don't have to pay it because you earned that money in your home country.

It's ridiculous.

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#29
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Questionable whether that will still be true in 4 years. At least China can still be expected to operate rationally.

Really? A nice rational genocide or two? China is an expansionist dictatorship. It would be ridiculous to suggest it is more trustworthy than the US. The US is actually acting rationally IMO. People just look at headlines and do not dig into the reasons. You might not agree with the reasoning, but it is not irrational. For example the tariffs clearly follow from arguments made by Trump's appointees (such as Bessent a…

  Really? A nice rational genocide or two?
Huh? So China dealing with an internal extremist Islam problem is a genocide?

But the US funding/providing weapons to Israel in the Gaza war is not a genocide?

  China is an expansionist dictatorship. It would be ridiculous to suggest it is more trustworthy than the US.
The US has bombed 29 countries since WW2. How many has China bombed? The US has installed dictators in foreign countries, influenced countless democratic elections. How many has China installed?

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#30
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Questionable whether that will still be true in 4 years. At least China can still be expected to operate rationally.

Really? A nice rational genocide or two? China is an expansionist dictatorship. It would be ridiculous to suggest it is more trustworthy than the US. The US is actually acting rationally IMO. People just look at headlines and do not dig into the reasons. You might not agree with the reasoning, but it is not irrational. For example the tariffs clearly follow from arguments made by Trump's appointees (such as Bessent a…

By that viewpoint, everything is rational. If someone hears voices in their head that tell them to shoot up a school, there’s also some reasoning that may lead them to actually do it. That doesn’t mean it’s rational. Can you give an example of behavior you consider to be irrational?
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