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When ChatGPT broke the field of NLP: An oral history

quantamagazine.org

121–130 of 181 posts

Re: When ChatGPT broke the field of NLP: An oral history

#121
As someone deeply involved in NLP, I’ve observed the field’s evolution: from decades of word counting and statistical methods to a decade of deep learning enabling “word arithmetic.” Now, with Generative AI, we’ve reached a new milestone, a universal NLP engine.

IMHO, the path to scalability often involves using GPT models for prototyping and cold starts. They are incredible at generating synthetic data, which is invaluable for bootstrapping datasets and also data labelling of a given dataset. Once a sufficient dataset is available, training a transformer model becomes feasible for high-intensity data applications where the cost of using GPT would be prohibitive.

GPT’s capabilities in data extraction and labeling are to me the killer applications, making it accessible for downstream tasks.

This shift signifies that NLP is transitioning from a data science problem to an engineering one, focusing on building robust, scalable systems.

Re: When ChatGPT broke the field of NLP: An oral history

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a scientific explanatory perspective, the old models are not obsolete because they are explanatory whereas LLMs do not explain anything about human linguistic behaviour.

On one hand you have models which you argue are explanatory, but arguably do not work. On the other hand, you have models that not only work but took the world by storm, and may or may not be made explanatory. You either invest more work getting one explanatory model to work, or invest more work getting a working model to become explanatory. What do you think is the fruitful research path?

What do you mean "work"? Their goal is not to be some general purpose AI. (To be clear I'm talking narrowly about computational linguistics, not old fashioned NLP more broadly).

Re: When ChatGPT broke the field of NLP: An oral history

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't try and say anything pro-linguistics here, people are weirdly hostile if you think it's anything but probabilities.

Maybe they could’ve tried to say something pro-linguistics, but the comment was entirely anti-LLM.

God forbid someone not bow before the almighty LLM

Re: When ChatGPT broke the field of NLP: An oral history

#124

CNNs were outperforming traditional methods on some tasks before 2017. Problem was that all of the low level tasks , like part of speech tagging, parsing, named entity recognition , etc. never resulted in a good summarizing system or translating system. Probabilistic graphical models worked a bit but not much. Transformers were a leap, where none of the low level tasks had to be done for high level ones. Pretty sure…

There was no leap in research. Everything had to do with availability of compute.

Neural nets are quite old, and everyone knew that they were universal function approximators. The reason why models never took off was because it was very expensive to train a model even of a limited size. There was no real available hardware to do this on short of supercomputer clusters, which were just all cpus, and thus wildly inefficient. But any researcher back then would have told you that you can figure anything out with neural nets.

Sometime in 2006, Nvidia realized that a lot of the graphics compute was just generic parallel compute and released Cuda. People started using graphics cards for compute. Then someone figured out you can actually train deep neural nets with decent speed.

Transformers wasn't even that big of a leap. The paper makes it sound like its some sort of novel architecture - in essence, instead of inputweights to next layer, you do inputmatrix1, inputmatrix2, inputmatrix3, and multiply them together. And as you guessed this, to train it you need more hardware because now you have to train 3 matrices rather than just one.

If we ever get like ASIC for ml, basically at a certain point, we will be able to iterate on architectures itself. The optimal LLM may be a combination of CNN,RNN, and Transformer blocks, all interwtined.

Re: When ChatGPT broke the field of NLP: An oral history

#125
post #8
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people will never be convinced that a machine demonstrates intelligence. This is because for a lot of people, intelligence exists a subjective experience that they have and the belief that others have it too is only inasmuch as others appear to be like the self.

This is why I want the field to go straight to building indistinguishable agents- specifically, you should be able to video chat with an avatar that is impossible to tell from a human. Then we can ask "if this is indistinguishable from a human, how can you be sure that anybody is intelligent?" Personally I suspect we can make zombies that appear indistinguishable from humans (limited to video chat; making a robot tha…

Thats not really intelligence though.

Re: When ChatGPT broke the field of NLP: An oral history

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must have explained myself extremely poorly. I spent a fair bit of money ~$1,000 USD running a near SOTA fine-tuned llama model on cloud GPUs for this very particular task.

This was clear both other times you explained it, the other commenters seem to want to nitpick despite it.

Maybe I misinterpreted what he wrote, but sanity checking the shiny new tech against fossilized tech of yesteryear to assure the new tech actually justifies it's higher cost doesn't sound like malpractice to me?

I mean he did use the state of the art for his work, he just checked how much better it actually was in comparison to a much simpler algorithm and thought the cost/benefit ratio to be questionable... At least that's what I read from his comments

Re: When ChatGPT broke the field of NLP: An oral history

#127
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I side with GP. Just because you don't want to use Llama/GPT because of cost, the middle-ground of DistilBERT etc (which can run on a single CPU) is a much more sensible cost/benefit tradeoff than VADER's decade old lexicon-based approach. I can't really think of many NLP things that are one-decade old and don't have a better / faster / cheaper alternative.

I must have explained myself extremely poorly. I spent a fair bit of money ~$1,000 USD running a near SOTA fine-tuned llama model on cloud GPUs for this very particular task.

I think people do understand, but think you that your argument on price/performane uses two dataoint that are both far from a perceived better third option.

It's like saying I chose barefoot walking to get to the next town and while admittedly it was a painfull and not pleasant experience, it was free. I did try a helicopter service but that was very expensive for my use case.

People are pointing out you could have used a bicycle instead.

Re: When ChatGPT broke the field of NLP: An oral history

#128
post #35
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people will never be convinced that a machine demonstrates intelligence. This is because for a lot of people, intelligence exists a subjective experience that they have and the belief that others have it too is only inasmuch as others appear to be like the self.

It's called the AI effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_effect > The author Pamela McCorduck writes: "It's part of the history of the field of artificial intelligence that every time somebody figured out how to make a computer do something—play good checkers, solve simple but relatively informal problems—there was a chorus of critics to say, 'that's not thinking'."

> 'that's not thinking'."

Do LLMS think? Of course they do. But thinking =/= intelligence.

Its pretty easy to define what an AI actually would look like:

A human coder sits down and writes an algorithm. In that algorithm, there is no reference to any specific piece of information on ANYTHING (including human words), whether its manually written in code or derived through training a neural net on that information and the code is just a bunch of matrix multiplies.

The algorithm has 2 interfaces - a terminal for a human to interact with, and an api to a tcp socket over which it can communicate to the world wide web.

A human could give this algorithm an instruction, like for example, "Design and build me a flying car and put it in my driveway and do not spend a single cent of my money, and do everything legally".

Provided there are no limits on communication that would result in the algorithm being perma banned of the internet, the algorithm prior to even tackling the task at hand will have to do the following at the least:

- figure out how to properly structure HTTP communication to be able to talk to servers, and essentially build an internal API.

- figure out what the words you typed mean - i.e map them to information collected from the web and

- start running internal simulations to figure out what the best course of action is

- figure out how to deal with ambiguity and ask you questions (like "how far do you want to fly"), and figure out how to deal with dead ends.

- start executing actions with preplanned risk (figuring out what risk is in the process) and learn from mistakes.

And that's just the short start.

But the key factor is that this same process that it uses to figure basic functionality is the same process (at least on the lowest level) that it would use to start designing a flying car once it has all the information it needs to "understand" the task.

And there isn't anything even remotely close on the horizon with any of the current AI research that indicates that we have any idea what that process looks like. The only claims that we can make is that its definitely recursive, not fully forward like LLMs, and its essentially a search algorithm. But what its searching and what the guidance metric is for search direction is the mystery.

Re: When ChatGPT broke the field of NLP: An oral history

#129
I think the AI hype (much of which is justified) detracts from the fact that we have Actually Good NLP at last. I've worked on NL2SQL in both the before and after times, and it's still not a solved problem, but it's frustrating to talk to AI startup people who have never really thought deeply about named entity recognition, disambiguation etc. The tools are much, much better. The challenges and pitfalls remain much the same.

Re: When ChatGPT broke the field of NLP: An oral history

#130
Unless we intend to surrender everything about human symbolic manipulations (all math, all proving, all computations, all programming) to llm in the nearest future, we still need some formal representations for engineering.

The major part of tradidional NLP was about formal representations. We are still to see the efficient mining techniques to extract the formal representations and analyses back from LLM.

How would we solve the traditional NLP problems, such as, for example, formalization of law corpus of a given country with LLM?

As an approximation we can look at non-natural language processing, e.g. compiler technologies. How do we write an optimizing compiler on LLM technologies? How do we ensure stability, correctness and price?

In a sence, the traditional NLP field has just doubled, not died. In addition to humans as language capable entities, who can not really explain how they use the language, we now also have LLM as another kind of language capable entities. Who in fact also can not explain anything. The only benefit is that it is cheaper to ask LLM the same question a million of times that a human.

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