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When ChatGPT broke the field of NLP: An oral history

quantamagazine.org

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Re: When ChatGPT broke the field of NLP: An oral history

#91

Great seeing Ray Mooney (who I took a graduate class with) and Emily Bender (a colleague of many at the UT Linguistics Dept., and a regular visitor) sharing their honest reservations with AI and LLMs. I try to stay as far away from this stuff as possible because when the bottom falls out, it's going to have devastating effects for everyone involved. As a former computational linguist and someone who built similar too…

Don't try and say anything pro-linguistics here, people are weirdly hostile if you think it's anything but probabilities.

> Don't try and say anything pro-linguistics here, (...)

Shit-talking LLMs without providing any basis or substance is not what I would call "pro-linguistics". It just sounds like petty spiteful behavior, lashing out out of frustration for rendering old models obsolete.

Re: When ChatGPT broke the field of NLP: An oral history

#92
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't write something as good as Bob Dylan and Tom Petty. Ergo I'm not intelligent.

This to me is a weak argument. You have the ability to appreciate and judge something as good as Bob Dylan and Tom Petty. That's what makes you intelligent.

> This to me is a weak argument. You have the ability to appreciate and judge something as good as Bob Dylan and Tom Petty. That's what makes you intelligent.

What if you don't? Do you think that makes someone not intelligent?

Think about it for a second.

Re: When ChatGPT broke the field of NLP: An oral history

#93
post #35
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people will never be convinced that a machine demonstrates intelligence. This is because for a lot of people, intelligence exists a subjective experience that they have and the belief that others have it too is only inasmuch as others appear to be like the self.

It's called the AI effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_effect > The author Pamela McCorduck writes: "It's part of the history of the field of artificial intelligence that every time somebody figured out how to make a computer do something—play good checkers, solve simple but relatively informal problems—there was a chorus of critics to say, 'that's not thinking'."

The flip side of that is that every time a new AI approach becomes popular even more people proclaim "this is what thinking is", believing that the new technology reflects the underlying process of human intelligence. This phenomenon goes back further than AI as a formal discipline, to early computers, and even during the age of mechanical computers. There are parallels with robotics, where for centuries anything that could seemingly move like a human was perceived to be imbued with human-like qualities.[1] The human instinct to anthropomorphize is deep-seated and powerful.

I keep returning to this insight by a researcher of the Antikythera Mechanism, which in the context of ML seems even more apropos today than in 1986:

> I would like to conclude by telling a cautionary tale. Let us try and place the Antikythera Mechanism within the global context of ancient Greek thought. Firstly came the astronomers observing the motions of the heavenly bodies and collecting data. Secondly came the mathematicians inventing mathematical notation to describe the motions and fit the data. Thirdly came the technicians making mechanical models to simulate those mathematical constructions, like the Antikythera Mechanism. Fourthly came generations of students who learned their astronomy from these machines. Fifthly came scientists whose imagination had been so blinkered by generations of such learning that they actually believed that this was how the heavens worked. Sixthly came the authorities who insisted upon the received dogma. And so the human race was fooled into accepting the Ptolemaic system for a thousand years.

> Today we are in danger of making the same mistake over computers. Our present generation is able to view them with an appropriate skepticism when necessary. But our children's children may be brought up within a society dominated by computers, that they may actually believe this is how our brains work. We do not want the human race to be fooled again for another thousand years.

-- E.C. Zeeman, Gears from the Greeks, January 1986, http://zakuski.utsa.edu/~gokhman/ecz/gears_from_the_greeks.p...

I also regularly return to Richard Stallman's admonition regarding the use of the term, intellectual property. He deeply disliked that term and argued it was designed to obfuscate, through self-serving[2] equivocations, the legal principles behind the laws of copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret, etc.

Contemporary machine learning may rightly be called artificial intelligence, but to conflate it with human intelligence is folly. It's clearly not human intelligence. It's something else. The same way dolphin intelligence isn't human intelligence, or a calculator isn't human intelligence. These things may be able to tell us something about the contours and limits of human intelligence, especially in contrast, but equivocations or even simple direct comparisons only serve to obfuscate and constrain how we think of intelligence.

[1] See, e.g., the 1927 film Metropolis, which played off prevailing beliefs and fears about the progress and direction of actuated machines.

[2] Serving the interests of those who profit the most from expanding the scope and duration of these legal regimes by obfuscating the original intent and design behind each regime, replacing them with concepts and processes that favored expansion.

Re: When ChatGPT broke the field of NLP: An oral history

#94
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see this is that for a long time there was an academic field that was working on parsing natural human language and it was influenced by some very smart people who had strong opinions. They focused mainly on symbolic approaches to parsing, rather than probabilistic. And there were some fairly strong assumptions about structure and meaning. Norvig wrote about this: https://norvig.com/chomsky.html and I think…

The way I have experienced this, starting from circa 2018, it was a bit more incremental. First, LSTMs and then transformers lead to new heights on the old tasks, such as syntactic parsing and semantic role labelling, which was sad for the previous generation, but at least we were playing the same game. But then not only the old tools of NLP, but the research questions themselves became irrelevant because we could ju…

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Re: When ChatGPT broke the field of NLP: An oral history

#95
post #80
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called the AI effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_effect > The author Pamela McCorduck writes: "It's part of the history of the field of artificial intelligence that every time somebody figured out how to make a computer do something—play good checkers, solve simple but relatively informal problems—there was a chorus of critics to say, 'that's not thinking'."

> every time somebody figured out how to make a computer do something Well, there’s the clue it is not really thinking if somebody told the machine how to do things. My Roomba isn’t intelligent because it’s been programmed to clean the floor, now is it? Wake me up when machines learn to do something on their own. I know everybody is on the AI hype train, but please show your extraordinary evidence to your extraordina…

Who's making extraordinary claims here?

Re: When ChatGPT broke the field of NLP: An oral history

#96
post #30

For me as a lay-person, the article is disjointed and kinda hard to follow. It's fascinating that all the quotes are emotional responses or about academic politics. Even now, they are suspicious of transformers and are bitter that they were wrong. No one seems happy that their field of research has been on an astonishing rocketship of progress in the last decade.

It's a truly bitter pill to swallow when your whole area of research goes redundant. I have a bit of background in this field so it's nice to see even people who were at the top of the field raise concerns that I had. That comment about LHC was exactly what I told my professor. That the whole field seems to be moving in a direction where you need a lot of resources to do anything. You can have 10 different ideas on h…

> That the whole field seems to be moving in a direction where you need a lot of resources to do anything. You can have 10 different ideas on how to improve LLMs but unless you have the resources there is barely anything you can do.

I think you're confusing problems, or you're not realizing that improving the efficiency of a class of models is a research area on it's own. Look at any field that involves expensive computational work. Model reduction strategies dominate research.

Re: When ChatGPT broke the field of NLP: An oral history

#98
post #4

If Chomsky was writing papers in 2020 his paper would’ve been “language is all you need.” That is clearly not true and as the article points out wide scale very large forecasting models beat that hypothesis that you need an actual foundational structure for language in order to demonstrate intelligence when in fact is exactly the opposite. I’ve never been convinced by that hypothesis if for no other reason that we ca…

Some people will never be convinced that a machine demonstrates intelligence. This is because for a lot of people, intelligence exists a subjective experience that they have and the belief that others have it too is only inasmuch as others appear to be like the self.

In the natural world, intelligence requires embodiment. And, depending on your point of view, consciousness. Modern AI exhibits neither of those characteristics.

Re: When ChatGPT broke the field of NLP: An oral history

#100
post #75
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> somebody figured out how to make a computer do something Well, I would argue that in most deterministic AI systems the thinking was all done by the AI researchers and then encoded for the computer. That’s why historically it’s been easy to say, “No, the machine isn’t doing any thinking, but only applying thinking that’s embedded within.” I think that line of argument becomes less obvious when you have learning syst…

> It’s still fairly safe to argue that the best LLMs today are not ... thinking I agree completely. > But in another generation or two? It will become much harder to deny. Unless there is something ... categorically different about what an LLM does and in a generation or two we can articulate what that is (30 years of looking at something makes it easier to understand ... sometimes).

Intelligence requires agency
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