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Redis is open source again

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Re: Redis is open source again

#501

Post by barotalomey »

cortesoft wrote: post #471
skywhopper wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Post-closing the source, the thing called “Redis” was the actual fork, and Valkey was the original community-built product. Users who want existing configurations to continue working on the same terms need “install redis” command not to break their licensing expectations.

First, they didn't "close the source". The new license is not closed source. You can argue why you think the license is bad, but it is not closed source. Second, I don't know about you, but continuing to function in the same way is my primary need for systems I am managing. When my provisioning system installs a package by name, i expect it to work in the same way as before. Switching binary names breaks that promise…

> When my provisioning system installs a package by name, i expect it to work in the same way as before.

But where do you put the blame?

The distro for making that change, or the redis company for breaking your software stack?

Re: Redis is open source again

#502

Post by trgn »

lolinder wrote: post #392
echelon wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This keeps happening: 1. People put a lot of work into building databases. The license choice is OSS / FOSS. 2. Some people in the community (original authors, community leads) make a company around the database and continue developing it for years on end. They sometimes raise venture capital to expand the business. 3. Amazon / Google / Microsoft offer managed versions of the database and make bank on it. Easily mill…

> The solution is clear: start your new database with an "equitable source / source available" license from day one. Nobody will complain about a relicense since your license will handle the hyperscalers right off the bat. Yes, this would be the honest thing to do, but people don't do it because using a non-FOSS license loses you adoption. The step you're missing in your little timeline is that the only reason the pr…

> So what's really happening is that these FOSS companies want to have their cake and eat it too.

talk about kicking down. So no harsh words about the big dogs who, while contributing nothing, and just due to sheer size and scale advantage, are capturing the lion's share of the enterprise value?

Re: Redis is open source again

#503

Post by musicale »

trgn wrote: post #497
lolinder wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> being thrown around like a rag doll by Amazon Can you elaborate on what exactly Amazon did to Elastic? I read all of their blog posts and the only thing I really got out of it was "they sell hosted Elastic cheaper than we can", which is hardly surprising given that Elastic really just packages up AWS/GCP/Azure cloud infra. That doesn't have to be AWS selling at a loss, AWS just doesn't need to pay itself. And by al…

Elastic was in the same bind as every company which writes opensource. There's no way to monetize it when a hyperscaler can sell it at much thinner margins. Either the product is donated to a foundation, or the parent company dies. While amazon technically wasn't doing anything "wrong", they're effectively squeezing the oxygen out of the ecosystem. The parameters of the problem are relatively new. SAAS - which is now…

> Elastic was in the same bind as every company which writes opensource. There's no way to monetize it

It is hard to get customers, especially businesses, to pay for something which is being given away for free.

Re: Redis is open source again

#504

Post by cortesoft »

thayne wrote: post #487
cortesoft wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would suck if you wrote scripts that looked for a process called 'redis' running on your machine.

I'd imagine the package would have a symlink for redis that points to valkey

Even with a symlink, the running process is going to be called valkey, not redis

Re: Redis is open source again

#505

Post by cortesoft »

barotalomey wrote: post #501
cortesoft wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, they didn't "close the source". The new license is not closed source. You can argue why you think the license is bad, but it is not closed source. Second, I don't know about you, but continuing to function in the same way is my primary need for systems I am managing. When my provisioning system installs a package by name, i expect it to work in the same way as before. Switching binary names breaks that promise…

> When my provisioning system installs a package by name, i expect it to work in the same way as before. But where do you put the blame? The distro for making that change, or the redis company for breaking your software stack?

Look, I know licensing decisions are important and a lot of people care a lot about them.

For me and my company, though, it just doesn't matter. We don't use redis in a way that would ever come into conflict with the license, so it really doesn't affect me. Redis didn't break my software stack with the license change. I am sorry, but I just can't get up the energy to care that much about which license they choose. If it helps them make money, fine go for it. I can't root that hard for the side Amazon is on.

Re: Redis is open source again

#506

Post by kstrauser »

cdelsolar wrote: post #455
kstrauser wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hence "just using it" isn't a viable option. AGPL isn't LGPL, it infects anything that uses it over a network. This is completely, factually, unequivocally, incorrect. You can connect to Redis using their first-party, MIT-licensed client library. You can write proprietary software using that library with no requirement whatsoever to release your software under any particular license (although of course you still ha…

It’s amazing how much FUD there is over GPL/AGPL. I’ve seen at least 10 posts on this thread saying you have to open source your commercial software if you use the new Redis. I don’t know how there could be such a fundamental misunderstanding of one of the most common software licenses out there.

I know, right? Corpos have done a great job convincing devs of the “dangers” of copyleft licenses, in favor of permissive licenses that purely coincidentally just happen to benefit those commercial users.

Re: Redis is open source again

#507

Post by jenadine »

Macha wrote: post #194
rustc wrote: post #144

They still require a CLA [1] so there's nothing stopping them from doing another relicense to a proprietary license tomorrow. The only way this remains open source forever is to accept AGPL-only licensed patches. [1]: https://github.com/redis/redis/blob/d65102861f51af48241f607a...

That's sort of fine. As a personal user, someone could fork and maintain redis in that case, which wasn't true in the SSPL era. Now AGPL+CLA is not a license I'd contribute under, but also Redis is so far down my priorities that it wasn't a project I was going to be issuing PRs for anyway.

> AGPL+CLA is not a license I'd contribute under,

Why not? Is it because only one company can make proprietary fork?

Would you rather contribute to MIT software where everyone can make proprietary fork? Or AGPL without CLA where nobody can make proprietary fork?

Re: Redis is open source again

#508

Post by thayne »

cortesoft wrote: post #504
thayne wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd imagine the package would have a symlink for redis that points to valkey

Even with a symlink, the running process is going to be called valkey, not redis

Only if valkey explicitly changes the program name after it starts, or Does something like calls exec on it's program directly. At least on linux.

Re: Redis is open source again

#509

Post by tyg13 »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #483
amrocha wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re living in theoretical fantasy land. Yeah, it’d be great if everything was open source and everyone was happy. But that’s not really what happens. Redis and Elastic are popular exactly because there’s entire companies behind it constantly maintaining it, securing it, and adding features. If you want use open source software at your job that’s a hard requirement. No, you can’t use “MySillyKeyValueCache” that Tim…

Then sell software. I said that first thing. Where is the fantasy in that? If you don't understand it such that you think it's a fantasy (despite the ocean of existing software as proof that is produced, and countless published manifestos from people who do it describing why they do), well that's a you problem not a me or anyone else problem. You don't get it, that's fine, then simply don't get it, and don't particip…

If they try to sell their software, by your own admission, you won't consume it. That's the point. The fantasy is the idea that some of these open-source products would even work as a closed-source proprietary business model.

Re: Redis is open source again

#510

Post by scargrillo »

echelon wrote: post #367
lolinder wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, we just did this whole ride with Elastic [0]: company changes the license out from under the community, community revolts, company gives up and changes it back. Both companies even pulled the same "it worked" excuse ("while it was painful, it worked", "this achieved our goal"). Neither company has built in a legal safety mechanism to prevent themselves from pulling the rug again later and both companies have sh…

This keeps happening: 1. People put a lot of work into building databases. The license choice is OSS / FOSS. 2. Some people in the community (original authors, community leads) make a company around the database and continue developing it for years on end. They sometimes raise venture capital to expand the business. 3. Amazon / Google / Microsoft offer managed versions of the database and make bank on it. Easily mill…

This breakdown hits hard because it’s not just about business models — it’s about trust.

Open source succeeded because it created shared public infrastructure. But hyperscalers turned it into extraction infrastructure: mine the code, skip the stewardship.

The result? We’ve confused “open” with “free-for-the-powerful.”

It’s time to stop pretending licenses are enough. This is about incentives, governance, and resilience. The next generation of “open” has to bake in counterpower — or it’s just a feeding trough for monopolies.

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