Oxide’s compensation model: how is it going? • Hacker News Board

Re: Oxide’s compensation model: how is it going?

#41

Post by ec109685 » Thu, May 01, 2025, 9:01 PM UTC

lbotos wrote: post #31

theoryofx wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"this is in keeping with the way enterprise sales is done more or less everywhere..." For non-sales roles you're doing things very differently than (most) everywhere else, which is why it seems like a compromise to give in to an 'industry standard' model for enterprise sales. The fact that sales is quantifiable doesn't explain why sales people get instantly rewarded with cash comp (+ equity) while everyone else on th…

> why sales people get instantly rewarded with cash comp while everyone else on the team might wait years for a potential liquidity event. Because sales people also do not make money if they don't sell? What's your counter proposal on how they should pay and attract top sales folks? I know some sales folks who would love to have $200k base with no variable component: The bad ones. Every salesperson that I've ever wor…

You could say the same thing about paying everyone a flat salary that you attract the middling ones.

And no way all salespeople are worth all the commission they are paid as all times.

You think the quality of Anthropic’s salespeople had much to do with them crushing their numbers as Claude exploded?

Even the most incompetent salesperson could sell their service if it’s currently the best model out there.

While that should increase everyone’s equity, it’s dumb that non-salespeople can’t participate in that abundance.

Re: Oxide’s compensation model: how is it going?

#42

Post by theoryofx » Thu, May 01, 2025, 9:05 PM UTC

jasode wrote: post #40

theoryofx wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"this is in keeping with the way enterprise sales is done more or less everywhere..." For non-sales roles you're doing things very differently than (most) everywhere else, which is why it seems like a compromise to give in to an 'industry standard' model for enterprise sales. The fact that sales is quantifiable doesn't explain why sales people get instantly rewarded with cash comp (+ equity) while everyone else on th…

>The real explanation for why sales people get paid so well is that some really good sales people sold the idea of a highly favorable 'industry standard' model for enterprise sales. Is there a notable company with enterprise sales that's successful without sales commissions? Companies in the past have tried a "flat salary no commissions" comp structure for salespeople before and it doesn't work even though intuition…

Yeah no doubt you have to have performance based compensation but that's exactly what equity and bonuses are for everyone else. Sales people are special in getting large amounts of cash comp in addition to equity.

Re: Oxide’s compensation model: how is it going?

#43

Post by dijit » Thu, May 01, 2025, 9:05 PM UTC

ec109685 wrote: post #38

michaelt wrote: post #23

> One of the more incredible (and disturbingly frequent) objections I have heard is: "But is that what you’ll pay support folks?" I continue to find this question offensive, but I no longer find it surprising: the specific dismissal of support roles reveals a widespread and corrosive devaluation of those closest to customers. The easy way to "pay everyone the same amount" when you sorta don't want to is to outsource…

Why is that a good thing?

its not, its a method of “x-washing”.

IE; Green-washing[0] and so forth.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwashing

Re: Oxide’s compensation model: how is it going?

#44

Post by chaosprint » Thu, May 01, 2025, 9:05 PM UTC

Regardless of the content of the article, I was very impressed with the design of this company's website. Very neat.

Re: Oxide’s compensation model: how is it going?

#45

Post by OJFord » Thu, May 01, 2025, 9:06 PM UTC

ec109685 wrote: post #38

michaelt wrote: post #23

> One of the more incredible (and disturbingly frequent) objections I have heard is: "But is that what you’ll pay support folks?" I continue to find this question offensive, but I no longer find it surprising: the specific dismissal of support roles reveals a widespread and corrosive devaluation of those closest to customers. The easy way to "pay everyone the same amount" when you sorta don't want to is to outsource…

Why is that a good thing?

I don't read GP as saying it's a good thing necessarily, just pointing out that it can be or become a bit arbitrary.

Re: Oxide’s compensation model: how is it going?

#46

Post by clarkmoody » Thu, May 01, 2025, 9:09 PM UTC

One thing I've been listening for in the podcasts is a discussion of equity. I'd love to get the company's perspective on equity, options, liquidity, etc. The Silicon Valley Way (tm) of using stock options to "juice" compensation while injecting large amounts of risk and drama into the employee's tax returns is certainly something I'd like to hear Bryan's (and Oxide's) take on.

Re: Oxide’s compensation model: how is it going?

#47

Post by cashsterling » Thu, May 01, 2025, 9:09 PM UTC

I really hope the best for Oxide and applaud their compensation model.

I applied to one of their roles which required me to write about 10 pages of text to answer all their questions... which I think is a big ask but I did it because "why not".

They took over 3 months to get back to me, but at least they got back to me (with an apology and a polite "no").

Re: Oxide’s compensation model: how is it going?

#48

Post by abxyz » Thu, May 01, 2025, 9:09 PM UTC

I like it a lot and their thoughtfulness about it but it's a little hollow when they're spending investor money. I'd like to see how this model evolves once they're off the vc teat: when there's a bottom line to answer to, does the dynamic shift? Everyone has an on-site chef when the money vc hose is on. Valve's flat structure was exciting because it wasn't 3 vc's in a coat larping as a business, it was an actual profitable business.

Support is typically low paid because it's a lot of effort for little reward, no matter how much you pay someone in support, there's only so much impact they can have on the bottom line. The organization as an organism where every organ is as equally important as the other is a beautiful sentiment but the appendix is getting jettisoned at the first sign of trouble. Support, no matter how valued and important to the organisation it is, is never worth $200k/year on the output of 1 person.

The exception to the rule for sales is the canary in the coal mine: sales measures itself, but every role can (and will) be measured when the pressure is on, there will be competition for budget, and the support team will get squeezed until they're empty while the engineers coast. I would be more convinced that this model could survive outside of the vc bubble if sales had bought in to too. Sales as a competitive sport is cultural, not fundamental.

Anyway, not criticism, just musing, love that they're trying it, even if this doesn't work out, everyone had a few good years, it's worth a shot.

Re: Oxide’s compensation model: how is it going?

#49

Post by ahl » Thu, May 01, 2025, 9:09 PM UTC

steveklabnik wrote: post #35

parrit wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah $175k plus 30% say stake in high growth company plus already owns home plus parents help woth kids and they own home nearby is different to $175k none of above.

That $175k was pre-pandemic, as the post says, it's $207,264 now. I'd also say that you're presuming a lot about the lifestyle of some strangers on the internet.

Which is $167,202 in pre-pandemic, inflation-adjusted dollars.

Re: Oxide’s compensation model: how is it going?

#50

Post by jasode » Thu, May 01, 2025, 9:16 PM UTC

theoryofx wrote: post #42

jasode wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The real explanation for why sales people get paid so well is that some really good sales people sold the idea of a highly favorable 'industry standard' model for enterprise sales. Is there a notable company with enterprise sales that's successful without sales commissions? Companies in the past have tried a "flat salary no commissions" comp structure for salespeople before and it doesn't work even though intuition…

Yeah no doubt you have to have performance based compensation but that's exactly what equity and bonuses are for everyone else. Sales people are special in getting large amounts of cash comp in addition to equity.

>Sales people are special in getting large amounts of cash comp

Not sure what you mean by "getting large amounts of cash comp" as if it was a given. Co-founder clarified their base pay is lower. If they don't sell, they won't get large amounts of cash comp.

What's the alternative idea you have in mind for compensation? How does one re-divide the pie to be more "egalitarian" to the fixed-salary $200k non-sales employees that doesn't lower the compensation to salespeople and make the job less attractive to rainmakers?