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New Study: Waymo is reducing serious crashes and making streets safer

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Re: New Study: Waymo is reducing serious crashes and making streets safer

#131

Post by bluGill »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #80
ecshafer wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be interested to see waymo adapt to the snow and ice, where “hit the breaks” Is the wrong answer, and the correct is to drop the car into neutral. I believe waymo will figure this out in time, nut SF and Phoenix are idealized driving conditions.

> snow and ice, where “hit the breaks” Is the wrong answer, and the correct is to drop the car into neutral This is only true with 2WD and no automatic stability control, and if you’re going down a slope. For every other case, ABs will out perform in snow and gentle braking will evenly distribute traction force with stability control doing microsecond evaluations.

You still need to be in neutral as the ABS/stability control doesn't control the engine. 2wd makes no real difference other than rear wheel drive tends to be the most susceptible to this issue, but any wheel can lose traction.

Re: New Study: Waymo is reducing serious crashes and making streets safer

#132

Post by TulliusCicero »

matttproud wrote: post #39
femiagbabiaka wrote: post #28

Anecdotally, as someone who bikes a lot in SF, Waymo's are a lot safer than human drivers simply because they follow the letter of traffic laws. Stopping at stop signs, waiting for pedestrians to clear the box, following the posted speed limits, etc.

I was just on a business trip to San Francisco for a few days, and I observed the near opposite of this from the Waymo fleet in SoMa: * Waymo vehicle creeping into the pedestrian crosswalk (while the pedestrians had right of way to cross), which caused someone to have to walk around the car into the intersection ahead of the Waymo. * Waymo vehicle entering a dedicated bike lane and practically tailgating the bicyclis…

Note that you have to enter a painted bike lane before turning, because it's safer to do it that way rather than crossing the bike lane right at the turn.

I know it can seem discourteous to cyclists, but it really is the smarter way.

Re: New Study: Waymo is reducing serious crashes and making streets safer

#133

Post by 6510 »

Lammy wrote: post #100
returningfory2 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tens of thousands of Americas are killed every year in car crashes. The existence of a case or some cases where a self-driving car caused injury has zero value. What matters is the rate of cases per mile driven.

> Tens of thousands of Americas are killed every year in car crashes. CDC “Underlying Cause of Death” dataset sez https://wonder.cdc.gov/ucd-icd10-expanded.html https://i.imgur.com/4PB0xyC.jpeg - “Person injured in unspecified motor-vehicle accident, traffic” is the 50th leading cause of death at 0.4% of deaths. - “Person injured in collision between other specified motor vehicles (traffic)” is the 108th leading caus…

The mcdrive is the most dangerous road.

Re: New Study: Waymo is reducing serious crashes and making streets safer

#134

Post by kajecounterhack »

Lammy wrote: post #116
sollewitt wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fellow SF cyclist: Even setting aside the malicious SF stuff, Waymo's have enormous advantages over humans relying on mirrors and accounting for blindspots. I never have to be concerned a Waymo hasn't seen me. I can't wait until the technology is just standard on cars, and they won't let drivers side-swipe or door cyclists.

> I never have to be concerned a Waymo hasn't seen me. Funnily enough that's exactly why I don't like them. Every time one rolls by me I know that tens of photos of me and even my 3D LIDAR scan get piled in to some fucking Google dataset where it will live forever :/ Their site is even proud of it: https://waymo.com/waymo-driver/ section titled “Keeping an eye on everything, all at once” “The Waymo Driver's perceptio…

Totally fair to be concerned about pervasive surveillance for the _potential_ of privacy violation. Not sure what to do about that.

That being said, just speaking with some knowledge of current state: the scans don't live forever. At this point, all the data they collect is way too big to store even for a short period. They'll only keep data in scenarios that are helpful for improving driving performance, which is a tiny subset.

Personally identifiable information is also redacted.

You should probably be more worried about what gmail knows about you than Waymo.

Re: New Study: Waymo is reducing serious crashes and making streets safer

#135

Post by bluGill »

indigodaddy wrote: post #71
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> those instinctual "decide which way to swerve in a split-second" scenarios that come up maybe once every 10-20 years The correct answer is almost always to hit the brakes. Not to swerve. And Waymo will hit the brakes earlier than you or me.

I disagree. High percentage of these scenarios are at speeds and scenarios where hitting the brake would not prevent a collision and a quick swerve is the only option to not collide. Obviously your quick swerve could cause another collision so I guess it's which decision on average causes the least harm/death? I agree though that most people's extinct would be to brake. Mine never has been though.

If you cannot brake you are following too close. I know everyone else does it (except 3/4ths of semis!), but you can be the one who maintains a long following distance and thus can stop in time. Every time setup the long following distance 5 cars jump into the gap - but then the gap remains as no more do.

Re: New Study: Waymo is reducing serious crashes and making streets safer

#136

Post by TulliusCicero »

wkat4242 wrote: post #30

In Holland we have this saying (based on an old commercial): "We from WC Duck recommend... WC Duck". (Which is a toilet cleaning product) It was a funny ad at the time. Unfortunately based in reality more and more these days.

Obviously the study should be taken with a grain of salt, given the source, but at least it is a study with actual data, that's been peer reviewed.

Re: New Study: Waymo is reducing serious crashes and making streets safer

#137

Post by bluGill »

ziddoap wrote: post #65
jmm5 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Large companies with fleets of vehicles often self-insure.

Interesting! When I was much younger, I worked for a couple companies that had (what I would consider) large fleets of vehicles, and they all were insured through an insurance company. I guess I just assumed that's how it was. I wasn't aware self-insuring was a possibility. Thanks.

Companies can self insure. That doesn't mean they have to. Your accountant can run the numbers to figure out if it is worth it.

Often self insure means they still pay an insurance company to handle the paperwork, but when there is a claim the company pays it.

Re: New Study: Waymo is reducing serious crashes and making streets safer

#138

Post by TulliusCicero »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #45
indigodaddy wrote: post #34

How do AI cars fare with those instinctual "decide which way to swerve in a split-second" scenarios that come up maybe once every 10-20 years over the course of a driver's history?? It's happened to me about 2-3 times and I've always made the "(assumedly) correct" split second swerve decision. Wondering if that is a "human/instinctual" skill and if AI cars do just as well or better, or perhaps not as good? I don't ha…

> those instinctual "decide which way to swerve in a split-second" scenarios that come up maybe once every 10-20 years The correct answer is almost always to hit the brakes. Not to swerve. And Waymo will hit the brakes earlier than you or me.

There was a notable case recently where the Waymo did swerve, to avoid someone who had fallen off a scooter into their lane (video here): https://www.reddit.com/r/waymo/comments/1hfvb5o/waymo_visual...

Hard to say for certain, but it looks like just braking probably wouldn't have avoided the collision.

Re: New Study: Waymo is reducing serious crashes and making streets safer

#139

Post by Aloisius »

ecshafer wrote: post #66
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> those instinctual "decide which way to swerve in a split-second" scenarios that come up maybe once every 10-20 years The correct answer is almost always to hit the brakes. Not to swerve. And Waymo will hit the brakes earlier than you or me.

I would be interested to see waymo adapt to the snow and ice, where “hit the breaks” Is the wrong answer, and the correct is to drop the car into neutral. I believe waymo will figure this out in time, nut SF and Phoenix are idealized driving conditions.

The correct answer is to not drive so fast (or at all) in conditions where braking might lead to a skid. I'd expect an autonomous vehicle to be rather better at this given they can hook directly into the electronic stability control system in a vehicle and constantly monitor temperature (and ideally measure upcoming road temperature).

Also, shifting into neutral is really only a thing for old vehicles without ABS/ESC. In modern vehicles, you let your foot off the gas slowly.

Re: New Study: Waymo is reducing serious crashes and making streets safer

#140

Post by bryanlarsen »

ecshafer wrote: post #66
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> those instinctual "decide which way to swerve in a split-second" scenarios that come up maybe once every 10-20 years The correct answer is almost always to hit the brakes. Not to swerve. And Waymo will hit the brakes earlier than you or me.

I would be interested to see waymo adapt to the snow and ice, where “hit the breaks” Is the wrong answer, and the correct is to drop the car into neutral. I believe waymo will figure this out in time, nut SF and Phoenix are idealized driving conditions.

If hit the brakes is the wrong answer, you are driving too fast.
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