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Redis is open source again

antirez.com

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Re: Redis is open source again

#151

Post by tough »

echelon wrote: post #130
homebrewer wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only real reason to use non-copyleft licenses for these kinds of projects is to be able to do the rug pull, so you should have expected it instead of feeling betrayed. I imagine they will now require copyright assignment or something like that for external contributors to be able to relicense new code under a commercial license.

All advantage accrues to hyperscaler "managed" versions. That's so much more fucked than a rug pull. Amazon gets to make millions off of the thing you built. "Equitable source" licenses with MAU / ARR limits, hyperscaler resale limits, and AGPL-like "entire stack must be open" clauses is the way to go. It's a "fuck you" to Amazon, Google, and Microsoft in particular and leaves you untouched. Open source today is hype…

It's sad as an open source lover how money fucks it all

Re: Redis is open source again

#152

Post by antirez »

rdtsc wrote: post #113

That's great news. I never liked the newly sprung up licenses. I understand the background but always felt a burden having to read and understand them, and wonder how they'd hold up in practice. GPL licenses have been around for decades and is something people, including legal teams, know more about. And when I say "know", I don't mean "like": it could be that this will just make it easier for a particular team to de…

That's a good point, traditional OSS licenses, we can like them or not, but they are "understood".

Re: Redis is open source again

#153

Post by stackskipton »

benwilber0 wrote: post #110
brookst wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the very least you have to validate everything that touches redis, which means finding everything that touches redis. Internal tools and docs need to be updated. And who knows if someone adopted post-fork features? If this is a production system that supports the core business, hundreds of hours seems pretty reasonable. For a small operation that can afford to YOLO it, sure, it should be pretty easy.

But why are they spending any time switching away from Redis at all unless they are a hosting provider offering Redis-as-a-service? I wasn't aware the license had any negative affect on private internal use.

Our lawyers looked at SSPL since we do host software for customers and it does use Redis and went "Eh, this is as clear as mud." so Valkey it is!

Re: Redis is open source again

#154

Post by tough »

md3911027514 wrote: post #122
weinzierl wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we need to get back to state where we take software licenses serious in letter and in spirit. The transitions Redis made are pristine on a legal and moral level. Feeling betrayed is absolutely uncalled for.

I mean isn't lying bad? They literally made public statements saying they "will always remain BSD." https://redis.io/blog/redis-license-bsd-will-remain-bsd/

People and companies are allowed to change opinions, why would anyone blame Redis or Elastic instead of Amazon for taking it all?

Re: Redis is open source again

#156

Post by mindB »

kstrauser wrote: post #124
doctoboggan wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are thinking of GPL. Many companies are happy to use AGPL licensed software in their stack.

I think you're thinking of the LGPL. The AGPL is basically GPL plus some additional requirements. I could see a company being OK with ~AGPL~ GPL but not ~GPL~ AGPL. I can't imagine the opposite. Edit: Oops, typoed the license names.

I think you have a typo mixing up AGPL and GPL. I agree that it would be hard to imagine a company being okay with the AGPL but not the GPL. On the off-chance that it isn't a typo, could you explain why a company might be okay with AGPL but not GPL?

Re: Redis is open source again

#157

Post by mperham »

mmaunder wrote: post #49

Here's the play: Open source with AGPL, then offer an enterprise license. You get two wins. The OSS community applauds your adoption of an agressive OSS license. Enterprise customers can't use software under AGPL because it risks infecting their IP, so they're forced to buy an enterprise license.

> Enterprise customers can't use software under AGPL because it risks infecting their IP

Yeah, this is BS.

If you simply use AGPL software, it doesn't "infect" anything. If you *change* the AGPL software, you have to release the changes. It forces the big clouds to open source their Redis improvements.

Re: Redis is open source again

#158

Post by vvillena »

tiffanyh wrote: post #57

While I applaud the effort to repair developer trust, do note that many organizations prohibit the use of AGPL. Linked below is Google's own stance on why AGPL is banned: https://opensource.google/documentation/reference/using/agpl...

That's the license working as intended, isn't it?

Re: Redis is open source again

#159

Post by echoangle »

tough wrote: post #154
md3911027514 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean isn't lying bad? They literally made public statements saying they "will always remain BSD." https://redis.io/blog/redis-license-bsd-will-remain-bsd/

People and companies are allowed to change opinions, why would anyone blame Redis or Elastic instead of Amazon for taking it all?

Because Redis said they would never do something and then changed their mind (which makes the whole concept of saying you will never do something useless), while Amazon never said they wouldn’t use open source software for free (which is their right).

Re: Redis is open source again

#160

Post by _msw_ »

antirez wrote: post #112
reconditerose wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Valkey implementation of multi-threading is fundamentally different than what existed in Redis. The history dates back to work done in ElastiCache that was released as "Enhanced IO", https://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2019/03/amazon-el... . The version released in Redis could only do about 350k RPS because of poor memory locality of operations, the inability to do command processing while handling I/O, an…

1. The fundamental idea was mine. Ideas can be improved, of course, and that's good. That was my point. However, allow me to say that Redis is fundamentally a "software of ideas" than anything else. Technologically it is far from impressive (Redis, ValKey, all the forks). 2. Redis 8 improves the same idea, too, released today. 3. If you claim [in a different comment here] you provided a lot of code to Redis, why you…

This exchange makes me sad. I know we can do better.

I don't understand why so many people think that it's impossible to have open source in your heart while working for a big company in your day job. I don't understand why people who have dedicated a lot of their time and emotional energy to keep open source ways alive and help build a community effort are attacked because they work for a company that needs to be made the villain in the narrative.

Of course Redis is free to copy BSD licensed code that Valkey contributors add to the project [1]. I only wish that the blog post about this advancement in Redis would give some credit, rather than claiming "We also improved the performance of CRC64 calculations" [2].

We can all do better, and engage with one another with mutual respect and admiration for what has been freely given.

[1] https://github.com/redis/redis/pull/13638

[2] https://redis.io/blog/redis-8-0-m03-is-out-even-more-perform...

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