Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Game preservationists say Switch2 GameKey Cards are disheartening but inevitable

videogameschronicle.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 134 posts

Re: Game preservationists say Switch2 GameKey Cards are disheartening but inevitable

#31

Post by addoo »

YurgenJurgensen wrote: post #27
addoo wrote: post #4

The article already touches on this, but in the modern day the games that exist on physical media are pretty much useless without their zero-day patches. Putting physical media aside, companies rarely make older builds available, so even when media contains a game and servers are up there is already plenty of ‘lost media’ if you consider old and interesting (potentially hilariously broken) old builds of virtually eve…

“Plays are ephemeral and should really be enjoyed in the now. Even if you can perfectly preserve a play, and the means to perform it, tastes change so quickly in theatre that a play that’s entertaining today might not be enjoyable even a year later.” - you, in the 1620s, probably.

Now imagine that the play cannot be altered (game build), it can only be performed on a specifically shaped stage (hardware requirements), actors can only be replaced by lookalikes (‘remaster’ tweaks), it can only be performed with a full theatre (online requirements), and the playwright retains the only copy of the play (source code).

Then you start to approach the problem that is gaming.

Re: Game preservationists say Switch2 GameKey Cards are disheartening but inevitable

#32

Post by AkBKukU »

horsawlarway wrote: post #9
addoo wrote: post #4

The article already touches on this, but in the modern day the games that exist on physical media are pretty much useless without their zero-day patches. Putting physical media aside, companies rarely make older builds available, so even when media contains a game and servers are up there is already plenty of ‘lost media’ if you consider old and interesting (potentially hilariously broken) old builds of virtually eve…

No real offense intended, because I understand the feeling here, but this... > I’ve realized this at some point, but video games are ephemeral and should really be enjoyed in the now. Even if you can perfectly preserve a game, and the means to play it, tastes change so quickly in gaming that a game that’s fun today might not be enjoyable even a year later. This is horseshit. It's a defeatist attitude, and it's not re…

> Yes - some things go out of fashion for a while, but trends almost always cycle back.

Exactly, this is even supported by Nintendo's own services offering emulation of their older systems. There is clearly demand for the ability to older games.

Capitulation to an "inevitable" fate of download only games is just taking the easy way out by not sticking to your own core values. I have personally pre-ordered a Switch 2, but I will not being purchasing any online only cartridges or download only software.

We haven't had the watershed moment that brings it into focus for gamers at large yet, The Crew was close. But Nintendo has kept the download servers going for all of their systems which has provided a false sense of security. Once those start being shut down maybe we'll see some actual response. Though with the introduction of Gamecube emulation on the Switch 2, they are only a small step away from emulating the Wii and giving people another scapegoat for their lazy acceptance of lack of ownership.

Re: Game preservationists say Switch2 GameKey Cards are disheartening but inevitable

#33

Post by kllrnohj »

mattl wrote: post #24
jsheard wrote: post #16

I get that Switch 2 games need faster storage, and that makes the traditional model of running games directly from the cart prohibitively expensive, but they could have just copied the Xbox/Playstation model of shipping physical games on slow media (Blurays in their case) and then having a mandatory installation step which copies the data to the fast internal SSD before you start playing. That way you're not entirely…

For the Switch any amount of flash memory for those game cards is expensive. They previously offered much smaller, slightly cheaper cards that started at 2GB. Unfortunately this time they’re only offering 64GB cards or these key cards. I’m curious how much storage they have, I’m sure very little.

Brand name 64GB microSDXC UHS-I cards are $10 retail. Figure Nintendo can get the actual flash storage directly much cheaper than that, probably more like $3-5. That hardly seems like a meaningful cost saving measure for a physical game, especially on a console that's pushing upwards of $80 as the game price.

Re: Game preservationists say Switch2 GameKey Cards are disheartening but inevitable

#34

Post by luma »

2mlWQbCK wrote: post #18
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam is always given an exception in these conversations because they’ve generally behaved - but that can easily change overnight from a black swan event.

Some future manager will look at a graph and think monetization can be improved X% while only losing an estimated Y% of users. It is guaranteed to happen. Question is only if most in the current generation will outlive free access to their entire Steam library or not.

Valve quite famously doesn't have managers and instead runs a "flat" org chart.

Re: Game preservationists say Switch2 GameKey Cards are disheartening but inevitable

#35

Post by lelag »

mysteria wrote: post #6

In the computer games industry pretty much everything has been download only for some time as the assets are too large for DVD and BD never caught on for PC. Places like GOG provide unrestricted offline installers but the majority are provided via a storefront like Epic or Steam. The worst case scenario for preservationists is for games to become a streaming service via cloud gaming, which publishers may like since i…

Interesting point about PC going digital-only as Nintendo is a fascinating counter-example.

While they offer digital downloads on the eShop, their pricing actively discourages it.

Case in point: I just bought my kid a new first-party Switch game. Physical copy on Amazon was ~25% cheaper than the identical digital version on Nintendo's own eShop. Even my 9-year-old noted how illogical it seems, the physical version requires manufacturing, shipping, retail markup, yet costs significantly less than the digital bits that have near-zero marginal cost.

It strongly suggests Nintendo wants the physical retail channel to thrive, or values the perceived permanence/resale value of cartridges.

This context makes the Switch 2 "gamekey" cartridges (physical auth token, digital download) fit their pattern of valuing a physical artifact and retail presence, even if the data delivery shifts.

Re: Game preservationists say Switch2 GameKey Cards are disheartening but inevitable

#36

Post by agarsev »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #3

With physical games, you're tied to how long your console and cartridge physically last. With digital games, you're tied to how long the console's e-store lasts, which is guaranteed to be sunset. Eventually I couldn't justify buying the console version of a game that I was willing to play on Steam.

Nintendo at least has a good history with this, at least in my experience. Both 3ds and WiiU e-stores were closed, but I can still play all my digital games on both. I can even make backup copies of the game on external media and everything works as you would expect (save online multiplayer, which is a shame but that's a different story)

Re: Game preservationists say Switch2 GameKey Cards are disheartening but inevitable

#37

Post by hombre_fatal »

wiktor-k wrote: post #5
hombre_fatal wrote: post #3

With physical games, you're tied to how long your console and cartridge physically last. With digital games, you're tied to how long the console's e-store lasts, which is guaranteed to be sunset. Eventually I couldn't justify buying the console version of a game that I was willing to play on Steam.

> Eventually I couldn't justify buying the console version of a game that I was willing to play on Steam. I do that too but doesn't the same rule apply to Steam, too? (that is if it goes down, you can't download the games anymore?).

It does, but Steam outlives console e-shops and hardware which have limited lifecycle by design since they are deliberately generational.

GOG would be another example since you can get a DRM-free binary.

On the other hand, does it really matter that much? Probably not. It feels good from a hoarding stance to have a bunch of games I'll probably never play but I got for a "good deal", heh.

A counter-point to my comment is that the real goal should be to buy the game on the medium you want to play it on only if you're going to play it, finish as much as you want to, and not care if it goes away because it's all ephemeral in the end.

I barely play games anymore yet I still would get sucked into looking for deals on Switch e-shop and Steam, and that feeling of sheepishness is what I had in mind when I commented.

Re: Game preservationists say Switch2 GameKey Cards are disheartening but inevitable

#38

Post by stevenwoo »

mattl wrote: post #24
jsheard wrote: post #16

I get that Switch 2 games need faster storage, and that makes the traditional model of running games directly from the cart prohibitively expensive, but they could have just copied the Xbox/Playstation model of shipping physical games on slow media (Blurays in their case) and then having a mandatory installation step which copies the data to the fast internal SSD before you start playing. That way you're not entirely…

For the Switch any amount of flash memory for those game cards is expensive. They previously offered much smaller, slightly cheaper cards that started at 2GB. Unfortunately this time they’re only offering 64GB cards or these key cards. I’m curious how much storage they have, I’m sure very little.

I think we only know the maximum physical cartridge size for Switch 2 is at 64GB as you write, but the CD Projekt interview about Switch 2 indicates there is/are other sizes available.

Re: Game preservationists say Switch2 GameKey Cards are disheartening but inevitable

#39

Post by jerf »

lelag wrote: post #35
mysteria wrote: post #6

In the computer games industry pretty much everything has been download only for some time as the assets are too large for DVD and BD never caught on for PC. Places like GOG provide unrestricted offline installers but the majority are provided via a storefront like Epic or Steam. The worst case scenario for preservationists is for games to become a streaming service via cloud gaming, which publishers may like since i…

Interesting point about PC going digital-only as Nintendo is a fascinating counter-example. While they offer digital downloads on the eShop, their pricing actively discourages it. Case in point: I just bought my kid a new first-party Switch game. Physical copy on Amazon was ~25% cheaper than the identical digital version on Nintendo's own eShop. Even my 9-year-old noted how illogical it seems, the physical version re…

And physical, at least to date, retains resell value as well. If you want to play an expensive Nintendo release that effectively never goes down in retail value, it's reasonably safe to buy it, play it, and resell it if you don't want it indefinitely. Nintendo never lowering their prices helps anchor the value high even in the resell market most of the time.

I haven't read enough about this to know if the gamekey will kill this but it's certainly only a matter of time before they are all coded and bindable to only one account. Technically this has obviously been possible for a long time, they just haven't dared to pull that trigger yet. They clearly want to.

Re: Game preservationists say Switch2 GameKey Cards are disheartening but inevitable

#40

Post by ferguess_k »

I think Switch is just following the other consoles eventually.

This lead me think, is there any 8-bit/16-bit/32-bit native handheld (not Pi emulation) market? I guess the primary difficulty is to make games for them, so most likely just a small hobbyist market. I still think kids don't really care about graphics though, at least when they are young.

Post reply on HN