Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Game preservationists say Switch2 GameKey Cards are disheartening but inevitable

videogameschronicle.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 134 posts

Re: Game preservationists say Switch2 GameKey Cards are disheartening but inevitable

#21

Post by proc0 »

dtagames wrote: post #14
Y_Y wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be nice if the Library of Congress or the Bodleian or some other prestigous clouty institution could demand that these published artworks be given to them as an unencumbered copy? I know that such a thing might have to include server code and some agreements on runtime environment, but I don't see that as insuperable. This is culture and it's part of our patrimony. The privilege of getting to publish thin…

The problem is the cost and knowledge base required to keep servers running. A game server is a big proprietary ball of spaghetti with hundreds of API endpoints and only the people who built it really know how it works[0]. It's expensive to keep those folks around and expensive to pay for the cloud services and SaaS tools they need to do their jobs. All software has a "lifecycle" and has to be turned off at some poin…

It could be paid by taxes, and run by government. Something like the Internet Archive (not sure if that's public but the entire Internet is much larger than all games put together).

Re: Game preservationists say Switch2 GameKey Cards are disheartening but inevitable

#22

Post by [deleted] »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #8
wiktor-k wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eventually I couldn't justify buying the console version of a game that I was willing to play on Steam. I do that too but doesn't the same rule apply to Steam, too? (that is if it goes down, you can't download the games anymore?).

Steam is always given an exception in these conversations because they’ve generally behaved - but that can easily change overnight from a black swan event.

[deleted]

Re: Game preservationists say Switch2 GameKey Cards are disheartening but inevitable

#23

Post by qbane »

> Even when a cartridge does contain data on day one of release, games are so often patched, updated and expanded through downloads that the cart very often loses its connection to the game, and functions more like a physical copy protection dongle for a digital object

From preservation's perspective even the day-one release, no matter how buggy it is, is worth preserved. The speedrun community, for instance, often need to fix on an exact version of the game to compete, and a physical copy (implying a pinned revision) is often easier to agree on.

There are exceptions to this, when the day-one release is not playable. It is the trend happening in the software industry -- release early, even if it is literally unusable, because we can push a patch via the network -- that is disheartening.

Re: Game preservationists say Switch2 GameKey Cards are disheartening but inevitable

#24

Post by mattl »

jsheard wrote: post #16

I get that Switch 2 games need faster storage, and that makes the traditional model of running games directly from the cart prohibitively expensive, but they could have just copied the Xbox/Playstation model of shipping physical games on slow media (Blurays in their case) and then having a mandatory installation step which copies the data to the fast internal SSD before you start playing. That way you're not entirely…

For the Switch any amount of flash memory for those game cards is expensive. They previously offered much smaller, slightly cheaper cards that started at 2GB.

Unfortunately this time they’re only offering 64GB cards or these key cards. I’m curious how much storage they have, I’m sure very little.

Re: Game preservationists say Switch2 GameKey Cards are disheartening but inevitable

#25

Post by TuxSH »

addoo wrote: post #4

The article already touches on this, but in the modern day the games that exist on physical media are pretty much useless without their zero-day patches. Putting physical media aside, companies rarely make older builds available, so even when media contains a game and servers are up there is already plenty of ‘lost media’ if you consider old and interesting (potentially hilariously broken) old builds of virtually eve…

These day0/day1 patches and updates usually weigh a lot less than the base games, on Switch the appeal of cartridges is to avoid filling up storage.

Before the Switch, save files were also stored on cartridges, making physical medium far more appealing than the mess digital was on the 3DS (if you owned more than 1 console).

Re: Game preservationists say Switch2 GameKey Cards are disheartening but inevitable

#26

Post by jsheard »

mattl wrote: post #24
jsheard wrote: post #16

I get that Switch 2 games need faster storage, and that makes the traditional model of running games directly from the cart prohibitively expensive, but they could have just copied the Xbox/Playstation model of shipping physical games on slow media (Blurays in their case) and then having a mandatory installation step which copies the data to the fast internal SSD before you start playing. That way you're not entirely…

For the Switch any amount of flash memory for those game cards is expensive. They previously offered much smaller, slightly cheaper cards that started at 2GB. Unfortunately this time they’re only offering 64GB cards or these key cards. I’m curious how much storage they have, I’m sure very little.

Maybe Sony was actually onto something with UMDs :P

Re: Game preservationists say Switch2 GameKey Cards are disheartening but inevitable

#27

Post by YurgenJurgensen »

addoo wrote: post #4

The article already touches on this, but in the modern day the games that exist on physical media are pretty much useless without their zero-day patches. Putting physical media aside, companies rarely make older builds available, so even when media contains a game and servers are up there is already plenty of ‘lost media’ if you consider old and interesting (potentially hilariously broken) old builds of virtually eve…

“Plays are ephemeral and should really be enjoyed in the now. Even if you can perfectly preserve a play, and the means to perform it, tastes change so quickly in theatre that a play that’s entertaining today might not be enjoyable even a year later.” - you, in the 1620s, probably.

Re: Game preservationists say Switch2 GameKey Cards are disheartening but inevitable

#28

Post by jerjerjer »

dtagames wrote: post #14
Y_Y wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't it be nice if the Library of Congress or the Bodleian or some other prestigous clouty institution could demand that these published artworks be given to them as an unencumbered copy? I know that such a thing might have to include server code and some agreements on runtime environment, but I don't see that as insuperable. This is culture and it's part of our patrimony. The privilege of getting to publish thin…

The problem is the cost and knowledge base required to keep servers running. A game server is a big proprietary ball of spaghetti with hundreds of API endpoints and only the people who built it really know how it works[0]. It's expensive to keep those folks around and expensive to pay for the cloud services and SaaS tools they need to do their jobs. All software has a "lifecycle" and has to be turned off at some poin…

Games with single-player mode must be playable in a fully offline mode. Would solve your (very valid) issue for a large chunk of games.

Re: Game preservationists say Switch2 GameKey Cards are disheartening but inevitable

#29

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

mystified5016 wrote: post #19
mysteria wrote: post #6

In the computer games industry pretty much everything has been download only for some time as the assets are too large for DVD and BD never caught on for PC. Places like GOG provide unrestricted offline installers but the majority are provided via a storefront like Epic or Steam. The worst case scenario for preservationists is for games to become a streaming service via cloud gaming, which publishers may like since i…

Fortunately for everyone, all of the "stream games as a service" initiatives failed completely. Consumers aren't really interested due to obvious drawbacks, and vendors aren't interested in provisioning enough or good enough hardware to solve those drawbacks.

Imo if Gamepass is allowed to survive, it's end game is a tier, or maybe included at no extra cost with some limitations, a cloud gaming component.

Gamepass is the biggest threat in turning games into subscriptions, and unfortunately a growing subset of people will only play games on Gamepass. We've dodged Gamepass exclusives for now, but for how long?

Re: Game preservationists say Switch2 GameKey Cards are disheartening but inevitable

#30

Post by cardanome »

wiktor-k wrote: post #5
hombre_fatal wrote: post #3

With physical games, you're tied to how long your console and cartridge physically last. With digital games, you're tied to how long the console's e-store lasts, which is guaranteed to be sunset. Eventually I couldn't justify buying the console version of a game that I was willing to play on Steam.

> Eventually I couldn't justify buying the console version of a game that I was willing to play on Steam. I do that too but doesn't the same rule apply to Steam, too? (that is if it goes down, you can't download the games anymore?).

That is why I buy my games on GOG. They don't have DRM, you can legally backup all your games.

Plus they are EU-based which decreases political risk in the current political climate.

Post reply on HN