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Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

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Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#291
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is mostly US audience. EU = bad US = good

But weren't people here supposed to be intellectually curious, and have the cognitive tools to overcome things like instinctive tribalism?

Intellectually curious doesn't necessarily overrule base human tendencies.

They may be more likely to have the capacity, but no way it's amy kind of guarantee.

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#292
post #278

The court decision itself is worth reading for a revealing look behind the curtain. [0] >> In Slack communications dated November 16, 2021, the Apple employees crafting the warning screen for Project Michigan discussed how best to frame its language. Mr. Onak suggested the warning screen should include the language: “By continuing on the web, you will leave the app and be taken to an external website” because “‘exter…

Jesus Christ. How worse can they be? Willfully malicious

Now we will have corporate training programs teaching us to say "inform the user" when we mean "scare the user", and then this wont show up in court. Just like how Microsoft taught us to never say "crush the competition". They will do all the same things though.

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't trust that Apple is honest about their privacy commitments This is a funny comment for me to read. Did anyone honestly think that Apple was touting privacy as anything other than a competitive advantage for revenue maximization? They've had things like iAd, their services revenue has grown massively as hardware sales plateau, and they are nowhere near as "private" in certain countries either.

iAd is stated as being built differently to how other adtech networks work. I personally believe that Apple is able to make different (better), choices in the name of a consumer privacy, than Google will. Android is built from the ground up to provide surveillance data to Google-controlled adtech - that's their revenue model. I don't begrudge them that, people should have choice, etc. but the revenue model is adtech…

You can use Android without Google

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#294
post #278

The court decision itself is worth reading for a revealing look behind the curtain. [0] >> In Slack communications dated November 16, 2021, the Apple employees crafting the warning screen for Project Michigan discussed how best to frame its language. Mr. Onak suggested the warning screen should include the language: “By continuing on the web, you will leave the app and be taken to an external website” because “‘exter…

The phrase "incandescent with rage" comes to mind when reading that order. A couple of choice quotes:

To hide the truth, Vice-President of Finance, Alex Roman, outright lied under oath.

This is an injunction, not a negotiation. There are no do-overs once a party willfully disregards a court order. Time is of the essence. The Court will not tolerate further delays. As previously ordered, Apple will not impede competition. The Court enjoins Apple from implementing its new anticompetitive acts to avoid compliance with the Injunction.

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#295

"Apple willfully chose not to comply with this Court’s Injunction. It did so with the express intent to create new anti-competitive barriers which would, by design and in effect, maintain a valued revenue stream; a revenue stream previously found to be anti-competitive. That it thought this Court would tolerate such insubordination was a gross miscalculation. As always, the cover-up made it worse. For this Court, the…

It's so good... but also it has taken so, so long to get here. The US should've done something about the app store tax a long time ago. People thought Apple won their case, but it... really just took time to get here. You get to try malicious compliance with judges exactly once, and then you're over.

Shoot me down with examples here, but my impression is that the US (historically, not just in the last three months) will never hurry to curtail the ability of a US company to make profit. With the possible exception of when a US company egregiously flouts laws that already exist.

Effective regulation isn't a strength of the US.

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#296
post #7

Finally. The AppStore rules are ridiculous. Apple has zero moral justification for them. They are quadruple-dipping: 1. Consumers pay premium prices for Apple devices. 2. Developers have to pay $100 a year to be able to publish an app. 3. Developers need to buy expensive Apple hardware to develop for iOS. XCode doesn't work on Linux or Windows. 4. And on top of it, Apple also wants 30% of all the gross app sales. All…

[flagged]

You go where your customers are.

Companies can't ignore Apple if they want to sell in the US so they're forced into their ecosystem. It's not a preference like you imply.

I'll never understand how people defend blatantly anti-competitive behavior even when it hurts themselves.

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#297
post #294
post #278

The court decision itself is worth reading for a revealing look behind the curtain. [0] >> In Slack communications dated November 16, 2021, the Apple employees crafting the warning screen for Project Michigan discussed how best to frame its language. Mr. Onak suggested the warning screen should include the language: “By continuing on the web, you will leave the app and be taken to an external website” because “‘exter…

The phrase "incandescent with rage" comes to mind when reading that order. A couple of choice quotes: To hide the truth, Vice-President of Finance, Alex Roman, outright lied under oath. This is an injunction, not a negotiation. There are no do-overs once a party willfully disregards a court order. Time is of the essence. The Court will not tolerate further delays. As previously ordered, Apple will not impede competit…

She also referred Alex Roman's actions and everyone else complicit for review of contempt of court, which carries a possible prison sentence. I never thought Apple would outright defy the courts to the degree they'd risk a prison term for the executives.

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#298
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This worries me beyond anti-competitive stuff. If Tim Cook is willing to lie and cheat for extra revenue, I can't trust that Apple is honest about their privacy commitments. Services revenue line must keep going up, and their ad business is a growth opportunity.

Similar to how Google merged with DoubleClick and threw out the whole "don't be evil" policy. My luke-warm take is that the advertising industry is inherently evil.

Graft versus host.

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#299
post #4

About time. I'm tired of apologizing to customers who purchase subscriptions in my app only to discover they could have purchased the exact the same thing from my website for 15% less. "Why didn't you tell me?" Excerpt from the filing: "In stark contrast to Apple’s initial in-court testimony, contemporaneous business documents reveal that Apple knew exactly what it was doing and at every turn chose the most anticompe…

About time for what? Another company to get charged with something that they don't get punished for? The fines are always less than the companies' net gains from the practice. Gains are often indirect, risk-related, and/or part of a larger strategy, so they cannot be calculated. Everything short of prison is a waste of time, waste of tax dollars, and spits in the face of decent citizens.

The judge referred the case for review of contempt of court, which makes individuals responsible for their criminal actions, and carries possible prison sentences. The judge has clear evidence of lying under oath and withholding evidence, and people have gone to prison for less. Alex Roman appears primarily culpable, but given the evidence reported, Tim Cook may also be complicit, and others. There is a real chance they are arrested at some point.

Re: Apple violated antitrust ruling, judge finds

#300
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phrase "incandescent with rage" comes to mind when reading that order. A couple of choice quotes: To hide the truth, Vice-President of Finance, Alex Roman, outright lied under oath. This is an injunction, not a negotiation. There are no do-overs once a party willfully disregards a court order. Time is of the essence. The Court will not tolerate further delays. As previously ordered, Apple will not impede competit…

She also referred Alex Roman's actions and everyone else complicit for review of contempt of court, which carries a possible prison sentence. I never thought Apple would outright defy the courts to the degree they'd risk a prison term for the executives.

Give the current situation with people ignoring the court (cough into the presidency) with no consequences, what do you expect them to do? Take the courts seriously?

Now, practically speaking, that exposes them to the Court taking all their frustration out on the execs. Oops.

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