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Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

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Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#291

Post by constantcrying »

kube-system wrote: post #248
constantcrying wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Was that not offered at your school? I think it would have been theoretically possible, but obviously logistically difficult as I would have had to skip multiple classes in other fields to attend. It's also not like I was particularly interested in mathematics at that point in my life. I essentially chose my field of study based on what I had the best grades in. Only during my studies, when the material actually bec…

For the schools that offer students the ability to take university-level courses, students aren't "skipping" other classes. > Only during my studies, when the material actually became difficult, I started to be interested and engaged in the subject. Many schools solve this by having different difficulty-levels of courses. My school, in the US, had three.

Germany has different levels of schools. I was in the one for highest education, targeting a university degree.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#292

Post by theshrike79 »

perlgeek wrote: post #226

At my daughters' school, the rules are roughly: * no phones during classes or during breaks (with the exception of lunch break, I think) * phone can be allowed by teachers for a particular class and purpose * if a student uses a phone while it's not allowed, the phone will be confiscated until the end of the school day * (there might be a more severe rule for repeat offenders) IMHO this strikes a pretty good balance…

In Finland the confiscation is the problem (or rather WAS the problem, until this law).

Children are people, people have specific rights. A teacher is just a random person as far as the law is concerned and can't take someone's phone away any more than an usher in a movie theatre can take someone's phone for being disruptive.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#293

Post by intellectronica »

If I were a Finnish child I would start working hard on getting my parents to emigrate, or at least send me on an extended exchange program to a country where I can still use modern tech to connect to the global network, meet other likeminded people, have access to all of humanity's knowledge, and learn any subject I'm interested in.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#294

Post by nabla9 »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #282
nabla9 wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how it is everywhere. Constitution gives rights, exceptions must be set by law. You have free speech... then comes the list of exceptions, incitement of violence, defamation (libel and slander), Child pornography, perjury, speech integral to criminal conduct, copyright infringement, state secrets,

The US constitution doesn't give any rights. It restricts the power of the government to curtail rights that already exist.

I hope you understand that's just cute wording.

Individual rights exist only as far as they are protected by others. If you are robbed and nobody goes after the robber, the right to property does not de facto exist. The government must take an action.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#295

Post by _joel »

dfxm12 wrote: post #259
RHSeeger wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daughter brings her phone to school with her - If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school - If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time - If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it - etc, etc, etc There's a ton of reasons for her to have her phone on her. Enough so that, when she gets p…

The first two aren't in school. The last doesn't actually require a cell phone. It's worth noting, according to the article, the law gives school officials leeway to allow kids to use their phones in some circumstances. So, the law doesn't stop any of the use cases you've listed.

All don't need a smartphone.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#296

Post by beej71 »

RHSeeger wrote: post #172
PeterStuer wrote: post #3

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

My daughter brings her phone to school with her - If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school - If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time - If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it - etc, etc, etc There's a ton of reasons for her to have her phone on her. Enough so that, when she gets p…

Dumb phone does all that, too...

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#297

Post by udev4096 »

torpfactory wrote: post #70
GuB-42 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is: smartphones exist. The young adults these children will become will live in a world where smartphones are an essential part of their life. Using a smartphone is a practical skill. That's why I don't think banning smartphones is the best idea. It is probably better than unrestricted access, but I feel that school should teach how to use them well instead. It is a bit like with calculators, there are clas…

What’s the skill though? Most everything you do on a smartphone is trivially easy thanks to all those hard working app developers. We all know from experience that the vast majority of actual phone time is spent consuming some kind of media. I’m not at all worried about kids not learning to use a smartphone well enough- that part will sort itself out. It’s all the other (boring) skills that get pushed aside in the mi…

There are quite a lot of things you can mess around with. Install a custom ROM, a custom recovery or build a custom ROM from scratch. Use emulated players such as winlator for gaming. Use GrapheneOS for maximum privacy and security. Use termux for learning CLI. There are tons and tons of things you could do with that little rectangle screen

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#298

Post by akie »

intellectronica wrote: post #293

If I were a Finnish child I would start working hard on getting my parents to emigrate, or at least send me on an extended exchange program to a country where I can still use modern tech to connect to the global network, meet other likeminded people, have access to all of humanity's knowledge, and learn any subject I'm interested in.

What a ridiculous reply. We're talking about banning smartphones during *class time*. There's nothing here that warrants leaving the country. Jeez.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#299

Post by _joel »

geremiiah wrote: post #29

Is it possible to fight Internet addiction without banning stuff? While it helps to ban smartphones during school, it won't stop these kids from logging on for 5 to 7 hrs after school. We need to find ways to make people (not just kids) more resilient to Internet addiction without resorting to widespread bans, which are both hard to implement, unlikely to keep people away long term and dangerous for other reasons.

Irony being, the cold-dark nights have helped a generation of computer programmers from the Nordic countries.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#300

Post by devsda »

anhner wrote: post #220
Gormo wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It had to be a law because children are people in Finland and most Nordic countries with rights that adults just can't take away. It's a strange concept to hold that there are rights that can't be taken away, but then take them away merely by passing legislation.

Those rights can't be taken away... without existing legislation. There are many rights that can be taken away, freedom of movement for example in the case of prisoners, but you need laws in order to not make that taking away a crime itself. You can't just apprehend and throw someone in your basement because they stole something from you. Same thing with children's phones, a teacher can't just take away the phone bec…

Now I'm curious. Is there a law that carves out specific exemptions for parents disciplining kids/teenagers like grounding, taking away phone and internet privilege etc.
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