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Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

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Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#181

Post by Tade0 »

esperent wrote: post #128
Tade0 wrote: post #89

The main (literal) takeaway is that teachers can now confiscate phones. Over here, at the other end of the Baltic sea, there's an ongoing debate about phones in the classroom and some schools have regulations in place regarding the use of electronic devices, but these are largely toothless as otherwise they would infringe on the right to property. I graduated high school before the smartphone era, so I don't have muc…

> they would infringe on the right to property. Can children bring in portable hifi systems? What about those squeaky chicken toys? Or a water pistol?

My sister's friend brought a microwave oven once and started making grilled cheese sandwiches during recess. He was told to unplug and never bring it again, but it was not confiscated.

My classmate brought a super-sized calculator to class for tests, as he had a medical condition which allowed him to bring "a calculator". The buttons made a lot of noise but, again, it was not confiscated.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#182

Post by jairuhme »

RHSeeger wrote: post #172
PeterStuer wrote: post #3

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

My daughter brings her phone to school with her - If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school - If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time - If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it - etc, etc, etc There's a ton of reasons for her to have her phone on her. Enough so that, when she gets p…

These are good examples of why a non-smartphone is valuable and a smartphone is not necessary. Also the linked article states that they will be allowed to use their phone when given circumstances require, which I think covers the cases you outlined

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#183

Post by asadotzler »

esperent wrote: post #128
Tade0 wrote: post #89

The main (literal) takeaway is that teachers can now confiscate phones. Over here, at the other end of the Baltic sea, there's an ongoing debate about phones in the classroom and some schools have regulations in place regarding the use of electronic devices, but these are largely toothless as otherwise they would infringe on the right to property. I graduated high school before the smartphone era, so I don't have muc…

> they would infringe on the right to property. Can children bring in portable hifi systems? What about those squeaky chicken toys? Or a water pistol?

the hifi system has a much better chance at attaching itself to freedom of speech protections than squeaky chickens or toy guns.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#184

Post by probably_wrong »

RHSeeger wrote: post #172
PeterStuer wrote: post #3

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

My daughter brings her phone to school with her - If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school - If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time - If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it - etc, etc, etc There's a ton of reasons for her to have her phone on her. Enough so that, when she gets p…

All of those problems can be solved without smartphones, as evidenced by literally every previous generation dealing with them. If anything, my grumpy self would argue that not having means to contact my parents if I forgot something ensured that I paid more attention the night before to what I had to pack.

But I'm open to compromise: let's give children bring dumb phones that can only call and text.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#185

Post by Ekaros »

makeitdouble wrote: post #148
ndr42 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not think kids and everybody else are standing a chance against all the money that is thrown at making and keeping them addicted. So I fear if we do not want them to be addicted we have to prohibit things (it does not need to be smartphones, it could be mechanisms on these devices).

Prohibition didn't work for booze, doesn't work for drugs. Why would you be expecting better results for this ?

Smoking ban in bars and restaurants seem to work. So doing same with phones in schools during lesson time does not seem unreasonable.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#187

Post by fsloth »

Kim_Bruning wrote: post #138

I deplore the fact that schools need to resort to banning phones. When I was younger I imagined a world in which computing devices would be a boon to (young) people everywhere. But many apps appear to be detrimental to people's mental health, both young and old. Possibly this can be changed. Maybe separate app stores are a solution (think f-droid)? Or maybe we need to start looking a lot harder at apps that might act…

Apps are the result of darwinian competition for engagement in a user base of billions.

It’s a horrible way to optimize technology for addictiveness.

Not sure if there is a fix for that.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#188

Post by FollowingTheDao »

os2warpman wrote: post #155
brainzap wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the goal of school and what it is used for are different thing. School is childcare

The first several years of school is indeed childcare. Childcare mixed with education. I am confused by people who use this as a derogative. I learned drafting, how to type, welding, library science, color theory, woodworking, BASIC programming, the internal anatomy of a piglet, resume writing, how to play the cello, calculus, and how to sing the names of all 50 US states in alphabetical order in middle school and hi…

> The first several years of school is indeed childcare. Childcare mixed with education.

Yes. Former teacher here to tell you I cared about the children. :)

But seriously, in the United States teachers are considered "In loco parentis" which "refers to the legal responsibility of a person or organization to take on some of the functions and responsibilities of a parent. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_loco_parentis

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#189

Post by stetrain »

RHSeeger wrote: post #172
PeterStuer wrote: post #3

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

My daughter brings her phone to school with her - If he bus doesn't show up, she can call and ask us to come drive her to school - If she wants to go somewhere after school, she can call us and let us know she won't be home at her normal time - If she forgot something at home, she can call and ask us to bring it - etc, etc, etc There's a ton of reasons for her to have her phone on her. Enough so that, when she gets p…

I did all of those same things while in school with a Nokia candy bar phone. I did waste some time playing Snake though.

Per the article this is a ban on using smartphones during class time, not a ban on bringing them to school at all.

That seems pretty reasonable to me. When I was in school if a teacher saw you using phone during class you might get one warning and then it was being confiscated.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#190

Post by cudder »

js8 wrote: post #109
cudder wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least used to. Last few years Finland's PISA scores as measured by the OECD have plummeted and now they are just a bit above average but nowhere near what they used to be.

What do you think are the factors that caused this fall?

I always felt like the teaching method in primary school was very much like "no pupil left behind". Teachers really tried their best to keep everyone up to speed on what they taught. If you were a huge troublemaker or just couldn't keep up with the (slowish) pace you would get moved to a special class where you would get more attention (even smaller class sizes) and wouldn't slow the rest of the group down.

As a "smart kid" it sometimes felt like waiting for everyone in class to grok something before moving on was a waste of time and that personally I'd learn very little, but ultimately I think it worked very well to ensure that everyone was on common ground.

At some point it was deemed that the current system wasn't inclusive enough so the special education for the troublemakers was gutted and they were put back into regular classrooms. At the same time, due to lack of funding and lack of teachers, class sizes ballooned from Immigration has also played a role I think. Finland used to be quite monocultural, but that has changed. There are now more and more students who speak Finnish as their second or third language and as such have trouble keeping up. I don't think the solution is to stuff them into their own schools either as that promotes segregation and makes integrating into the society as an immigrant harder, and I don't pretend to know the perfect solution (if one even exists), but one thing's for sure: the Finnish school system was 100% unprepared for it.

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