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Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

yle.fi

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Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#71

Post by constantcrying »

pandemic_region wrote: post #28
constantcrying wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Are you implying we should school them the Spartan way rather then? Would that prepare them for life in a better way? Or, what do you think would be valuable then to do (purposely not saying learn) during those twelve years?

I am not implying anything.

>Or, what do you think would be valuable then to do (purposely not saying learn) during those twelve years?

I think that this is different between children.

Actually I think it could be extremely valuable to learn, but then the child's activities should actually focus on learning effectively. And sitting in a classroom with children not that interested in learning and a teacher trying to find some middle ground is not helping that.

Personally I believe that with a good school system I would have been perfectly fine doing university courses at 16 and a good school system would have encouraged me to accomplish exactly that.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#73

Post by closewith »

doublerabbit wrote: post #48
constantcrying wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are old enough to drive certain vehicles and old enough to buy alcohol. If we trust them with that surely we can let them do things during the day without constant adult supervision.

Depends on what. I can't even trust the 40 year developers in my team at work. "Hacky if foreach loop will fix later" Trust is a privilege that must be earned not given. Prove to me you're trustworthy and I'll give you trust. One untrustworthy 16 year old can cause hell chaos in a group of trustworthy teenagers. I've seen it when I was a youth worker.

Trust is by far most often given and earned (or lost) post facto. In fact, that's an essential characteristic of a society.

> Depends on what. I can't even trust the 40 year developers in my team at work. "Hacky if foreach loop will fix later"

Whenever people make statements like this, I always wonder what their peers think of them. This dismissive attitude is so off-putting.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#74

Post by constantcrying »

ndr42 wrote: post #49
constantcrying wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I've read the same comment from you as a response to three different comments. I will just answer here: "There is substantial evidence to suggest that education influences intelligence.[3]" (From Wikipedia) [3] Baltes, P., & Reinert, G. (1969). Cohort effects in cognitive development in children as revealed by cross sectional sequences. Developmental Psychology, 1, 169-177.

Why do you think I am "against learning"?

I am saying that school is terrible at teaching. If the goal of schooling is that students learn then the school system I was in was a total failure.

The moment I entered university I learned much more and much faster.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#75

Post by ioseph »

GuB-42 wrote: post #50
PeterStuer wrote: post #3

If the goal of school is to develop children into young adults with good reasoning and analytical skills, a basic wholesome world and social model and some practical skills and basic physique, smartphones seem to contribute little and distract a lot from those aims.

The thing is: smartphones exist. The young adults these children will become will live in a world where smartphones are an essential part of their life. Using a smartphone is a practical skill. That's why I don't think banning smartphones is the best idea. It is probably better than unrestricted access, but I feel that school should teach how to use them well instead. It is a bit like with calculators, there are clas…

I think a PC is a more apt comparison. Yes we learnt them in computer class but they weren't in the Math classroom. Hell learning software engineering I didn't use my laptop at all during lectures.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#76

Post by constantcrying »

technothrasher wrote: post #39
constantcrying wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that schools totally fail at these, can't we consider making children do something else. Something which does not involve sitting in classrooms for 8 hours a day and learning nothing?

I learned plenty in primary and secondary school. So has my son, who is about to graduate high school and attend university in the fall. Perhaps you went to bad schools, or the school's environment just didn't fit you. That's an argument for better and more adaptable schools, not a condemnation of the concept of mandatory public education.

The moment I entered university I learned much more and much faster. Obviously the fault for that lies with the school system.

My school was an average school for students targeting a university degree and I did quite well compared to my peers.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#77

Post by messe »

_heimdall wrote: post #69
constantcrying wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are old enough to drive certain vehicles and old enough to buy alcohol. If we trust them with that surely we can let them do things during the day without constant adult supervision.

The legal drinking age in Finland is 18 or 20, depending on the ABV. Where us the drinking age 16?

In Denmark anything less that 16.5% can be purchased by 16 year olds.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#78

Post by a3w »

ioseph wrote: post #75
GuB-42 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is: smartphones exist. The young adults these children will become will live in a world where smartphones are an essential part of their life. Using a smartphone is a practical skill. That's why I don't think banning smartphones is the best idea. It is probably better than unrestricted access, but I feel that school should teach how to use them well instead. It is a bit like with calculators, there are clas…

I think a PC is a more apt comparison. Yes we learnt them in computer class but they weren't in the Math classroom. Hell learning software engineering I didn't use my laptop at all during lectures.

For some reason, we learn math as if we were farmers in the early 1900s. We do not learn (Bayesian) statistics early enough to tell fact from fraud, what city dwellers and voters could probably use instead.

And applied math on a PC would be great, but we barely have applied math on a calculator.

And kids love calculators: only digital numbers are numbers. 2/3 is cleary not a number to anyone below 20 years of age, that is two numbers, we have to write .6666666\dash_over{6} down as a solution instead.

Re: Finland Bans Smartphones in Schools

#79

Post by constantcrying »

tekla wrote: post #40
constantcrying wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So that every kid has a uniform and common base of knowledge that helps them understand the world around them, and enables them to go further by learning more or starting to work. Oh, I must have missed that class.

I'm guessing you skipped it

I "skipped" like two days in my entire school life by pretending to be sick. If that was taught in those two days I will obviously apologize.
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