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Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

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Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#271

Post by seanmcdirmid »

bunderbunder wrote: post #65
thehappypm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone wants an EV, especially in America. Unless EV’s can jump to 500 mile range and ubiquitous five minute charging, a lot of people are just gonna want a hybrid.

Just yesterday in the coffee shop the person next to me was having a conversation about his buyer's remorse over recently purchasing a full EV instead of a hybrid or plug-in hybrid. It sounded like he hadn't anticipated how much of a hassle it is to charge on road trips. Something about having to carefully plan around the locations of fast charge stations, and it really being a drag when you're just trying to get out…

The problem with EVs and roadtrips is simply charging infrastructure. If there were L3 chargers wherever there were gas stations, it really wouldn’t be a problem even in eastern Oregon (really want to take my i4 to John Day, but alas…not quite yet, even if you drive a Tesla).

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#272

Post by loeg »

slt2021 wrote: post #171
loeg wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PHEVs (hybrids with large battery packs) are the worst of both worlds -- weight penalty of a big EV pack, but the complexity/maintenance of an ICE engine. Additionally, rarely used gas can go bad sitting in the tank. Just get a regular hybrid if you're concerned about EV range or don't like the current limited offerings.

PHEV fits the ideal use case of short commute to work every day on EV, and a weekend trip to national park/resort city 400 miles away. but the downside is maintenance of ICE engine and transmission and all consumables

> PHEV fits the ideal use case of short commute to work every day on EV, and a weekend trip to national park/resort city 400 miles away.

IMO, EVs fit this use case just fine. There are plenty of chargers; it's not a big deal.

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#273

Post by loeg »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #247
loeg wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PHEVs (hybrids with large battery packs) are the worst of both worlds -- weight penalty of a big EV pack, but the complexity/maintenance of an ICE engine. Additionally, rarely used gas can go bad sitting in the tank. Just get a regular hybrid if you're concerned about EV range or don't like the current limited offerings.

It's not as easy as more components = more expensive. The battery pack is much smaller. A Prius PHEV is almost 500 lbs lighter than a Model 3 and only 100 lbs heavier than a normal hybrid Prius, which also has a battery pack. The MSRP is lower by almost $10k, which can cover a lot of maintenance before you resell it with less depreciation.

> It's not as easy as more components = more expensive.

I never said "more expensive."

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#274

Post by jcranmer »

prhn wrote: post #226

The future of (public) transportation absolutely is driverless cars. Every time I'm stuck in traffic on an LA highway with 5+ lanes and I see the horrendously inefficient use of space this future becomes clearer. Waymos are also really confidence inspiring. They drive more safely and cautiously than any Uber/Lyft driver I've ridden with. If every car on the road was synced then they could drive more closely to each o…

> If every car on the road was synced then they could drive more closely to each other and at much faster speeds. This would optimize road space, decrease congestion, and reduce transit times.

That's not going to happen, not in our lifetimes. It's not safe to do this unless you have a critical mass of cars on the road capable of doing it. Given the average age of cars, it'll take ~10-15 years from such tech being mandatory in new cars to think about doing this. Being mandatory is of course itself over 10 years from it being available. And it's not available yet.

We're now a decade out from people starting to say "stop investing in public transportation because driverless cars will obsolete it," and so far driverless cars have only managed to provide a limited taxi service in a couple of cities, a far cry from deprecating public transit.

(Actually, I personally hew to the belief that driverless cars will make traffic worse, since it will probably increase the number of empty cars running around because traffic tends to be dominated by unidirectional bursts of traffic.)

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#275

Post by seanmcdirmid »

tzs wrote: post #263
mjamesaustin wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it's straightforwardly true that road trip charging is less convenient than with gas cars. But charging for regular use is dramatically better. Anytime you're not on a road trip, you spend essentially no time fueling. Just plug in at night like you do with other electronics. So I'll take saving 15 mins every week avoiding the gas station, in exchange for the couple times a year I have to wait an extra 15 mins cha…

Note that if your hybrid is a plug-in hybrid then you might get the best of both worlds. On long road trips you get the fast re-energizing of a gas car. For regular use if your plug in every night there is a good chance you can do most of your driving in EV mode. Current plug-in hybrids often have EV mode ranges of 40+ miles. This is what someone I know with a RAV4 Prime reports. They plug in at night and it seems to…

But you don’t really. You get a weak drive train as many moving parts as an ICE plus a non-trivial size battery that is expensive to replace. Your maintenance costs potential are as a bad as an ICE plus an EV. EVs are way more elegant solutions, simpler, better performance. Also, EVs are improving rapidly, charging speed and range keep getting better.

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#276

Post by seanmcdirmid »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #66
throwaway48476 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want a range extended EV with a easily removable power pack. Unfortunately the EPA doesn't consider it an EV so no one will make one because there's no tax credit.

My dream is a little trailer gas generator. Give you infinite range for longer trips. Day to day, just leave it disconnected.

Isn’t that the BMW i3 range extender?

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#277

Post by zumu »

prhn wrote: post #226

The future of (public) transportation absolutely is driverless cars. Every time I'm stuck in traffic on an LA highway with 5+ lanes and I see the horrendously inefficient use of space this future becomes clearer. Waymos are also really confidence inspiring. They drive more safely and cautiously than any Uber/Lyft driver I've ridden with. If every car on the road was synced then they could drive more closely to each o…

> If every car on the road was synced then they could drive more closely to each other and at much faster speeds. This would optimize road space, decrease congestion, and reduce transit times.

So like a train?

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#278

Post by jcranmer »

spiderice wrote: post #227
xyst wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can already do this with commuter trains.

What a joy for people who live near commuter trains

Maybe we should build more commuter trains so that more people can live near them, then.

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#279

Post by userbinator »

standardUser wrote: post #180

I know we Americans just love to own cars, what with the rapid depreciation, constant maintenance and massive storage requirements. Who could resist? But isn't the promise of self driving vehicles that we don't all need to own, maintain and operate a 4000lb machine? I know it's hard to resist dropping the $30k, $40k or even $50k and paying that monthly insurance we all love. But wouldn't it be better if we could just…

"You will own nothing and be happy."

...no.

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#280

Post by acdha »

iknowstuff wrote: post #237
acdha wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that’s called marketing. Believe it when they do what Mercedes does and accept liability rather than trying to shirk it.

You fell for Mercedes’ marketing so that’s hilariously ironic

I’m sure that sounded more clever in your head but an actual legal agreement is more than marketing.
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