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Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

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Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#261

Post by chrisguilbeau »

doublescoop wrote: post #210
Retric wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hybrids are a dead end. There’s already EV’s doing 1MW charging. That’s practically gas pump speeds while also being able to charge at home, and the underlying technology keeps improving. 8% of new cars in the US, 14% in the EU, and 27% in China are EV’s. Toyota’s EV sales are anemic by comparison.

Hybrids are the only choice for the vast majority of the country that doesn't have the needed infrastructure to support EVs. If you never leave your urban enclave, then sure, EVs are great. But hybrids are perfect for _right now_, even if EVs are the future. The Toyota hybrid engine is also rock solid and has been for more than a decade. They don't have a reason to abandon that right now when the industry is highly u…

I live in rural VT, 600 person town in national forest. Tons of us have EVs because you don’t have to drive down the mountain for gas and they drive great in the snow and mud.

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#262

Post by LanceJones »

adrr wrote: post #209
vachina wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FSD is something you can BUY and USE right now. Toyota is writing an MoU. They’re not the same.

FSD can’t self drive on any street though. Its just L2 like cruise control and lane centering.

I use it every day on every street in Vancouver. Where do you come up with your information?

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#263

Post by tzs »

mjamesaustin wrote: post #164
ketzo wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if there are charging stations every ten miles along the exact route you were already planning to take, it’s just straightforwardly true that it’s more annoying to charge vs. get gas. I can fill my tank and be back on the road in With an EV, I would be stopping anywhere from 10-30minutes (depending on the kinds of chargers available) (assuming I don’t have to wait for one to open up), and I’d be doing it twice a…

Yes it's straightforwardly true that road trip charging is less convenient than with gas cars. But charging for regular use is dramatically better. Anytime you're not on a road trip, you spend essentially no time fueling. Just plug in at night like you do with other electronics. So I'll take saving 15 mins every week avoiding the gas station, in exchange for the couple times a year I have to wait an extra 15 mins cha…

Note that if your hybrid is a plug-in hybrid then you might get the best of both worlds.

On long road trips you get the fast re-energizing of a gas car.

For regular use if your plug in every night there is a good chance you can do most of your driving in EV mode. Current plug-in hybrids often have EV mode ranges of 40+ miles.

This is what someone I know with a RAV4 Prime reports. They plug in at night and it seems to mostly use the battery. It does sometime use the ICE but it is infrequently enough that they have only had to put more gas in every few months.

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#264

Post by benatkin »

jannyfer wrote: post #168
zetazzed wrote: post #86

Ok, I appreciate that timelines in this space are long. But the opening phrase: "Toyota Motor Corporation (“Toyota”) and Waymo reached a preliminary agreement to explore a collaboration focused on accelerating the development..." reads a bit like a parody of corporate speak about a project nowhere close to happening. Did they agree to deploy? Or reach an agreement to collaborate? No, that's too strong. They will EXPL…

It reads like a Memorandum of Understanding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorandum_of_understanding

And if they don't develop a formal contract after 5 months, it's a deadMoU5

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#265

Post by adrr »

gonzobonzo wrote: post #248
adrr wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Progress would be get certified for self driving. For comparison, Mercedes, BMW, Honda etc have L3 cars on the market. Mercedes just got approved full highway speeds in EU and working on L4 certification.

I just checked out Mercedes, and it appears to be geofenced with a lot of restrictions[1]: > DRIVE PILOT can be activated in heavy traffic jams at a speed of 40 MPH or less on a pre-defined freeway network approved by Mercedes-Benz. DRIVE PILOT operates in daytime lighting conditions when inclement weather is not present and in areas where there is not a construction zone. Please refer to the Operator’s Manual for a…

That’s what the government allows them to do. They got approved for freeway speeds in EU and are trying to get approved in CA. You need to prove that the car is safer than a human driver.

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#266

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

chrisguilbeau wrote: post #251
chrisguilbeau wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mine drove me from my house to the airport without my ever touching the steering wheel so what exactly do you mean?

All I’m saying is that starting FSD from park in my driveway and having it drive to my destination with my hands on my legs and then having it park itself when it gets there seems reasonable to call “full self driving” to me. I pay for the subscription and I would continue paying if it never got any better. I do live in a rural state, so maybe that’s why it works so well.

Let's see it do that in the snow, heavy rain, anything that doesn't replicate ideal conditions in SoCal. You're riding on the sweet spot of a Gaussian and at some point you're going to experience an outlier when the machine makes a wrong interpretation of its inputs.

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#267

Post by adrr »

LanceJones wrote: post #262
adrr wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FSD can’t self drive on any street though. Its just L2 like cruise control and lane centering.

I use it every day on every street in Vancouver. Where do you come up with your information?

You’re driving. Why you can’t watch a movie like you can on a Mercedes L3 car.

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#268

Post by BLKNSLVR »

qaq wrote: post #258
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think part of Elon's strategy is announcing being around the corner in order to scare off competitors and investment into alternatives because, well, Telsa is already so far ahead. This is why Tesla's "actuals" are delivered so many years after the dates of the initial pronouncements (for those few things that have so far been delivered at all).

In what way Tesla is ahead of Waymo ?

That is the impression those pronouncements are intending to give. My point is that it may not reflect reality; it's trying to present "we are way ahead", whether they are or not, as reality, in order to incentivise investment in their company, rather than in a competitors, whilst at the same time scaring away those thinking about attempting to compete by making the moat look wider than it is.

I legitimately don't know who's ahead of who and where the state-of-the-art currently sits, but I do know that I hear far more about Tesla's vision roadmap than Waymo's or Uber's or anyone else's.

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#269

Post by makeitdouble »

slt2021 wrote: post #175
makeitdouble wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not mature enough to Toyota's taste, probably. Hydrogen fuel cell is more about diversification, and it is fully backed by the Japan gov so ROI would be through the roof even if it doesn't "win". Also many countries aren't producing enough electricity ( cough Japan and Germany cough ) so EVs getting popular _at scale_ isn't going to happen tomorrow either.

cannot believe that Japan finds its better to depend on oil from Middle East and import gasoline instead of building one more nuclear plant

Having a nuclear disaster only decade ago with a flurry of other plants that couldn't pass the safety test when re-checked creates a pretty tough situation.

Right now there's a plant that is stopped by the gov from getting back into production for safety issues, with the elec company trying to appeal for the nth time, and it sure doesn't help the overall image.

"This time it will be fine" is kinda hard to stomach for the impacted public to be honest.

Re: Waymo and Toyota outline partnership to advance autonomous driving deployment

#270

Post by DerekL »

proudestmonkey wrote: post #206
vachina wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FSD is something you can BUY and USE right now. Toyota is writing an MoU. They’re not the same.

Waymo is something that actually drives itself and you can hail right now. FSD is not actually “full self-driving”.

Tesla doesn't even call it that, there's “(Supervised)” after that. That's like calling it “Full Self-Driving (Not!)”.
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