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Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

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Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#251

Post by AlotOfReading »

sinuhe69 wrote: post #212
AlotOfReading wrote: post #123

I'm not sure even Tesla unambiguously qualifies here. Looking at the NHTSA part 583 list for 2025 [0], none of the Tesla vehicles have a "US" content higher than 75% (which I think includes Canada?). The highest is the base Kia EV6 at 80%. This seems to be coming from the Kogod manufacturing index. That's a more qualitative ranking that attempts to deal with things like corporate structures rather than just origin li…

If the origins are so fuzzy, I guess other manufacturers would very soon adjust their part lists/part origins to avoid the tariff?

Fuzzy in the sense of "you need a bunch of experts and lawyers to sit down to determine what the correct answer for the government is in any specific situation". The work is exceedingly tedious and expensive.

I was involved in similar efforts to remove Chinese parts from the supply chain during the previous Trump administration. It was a nightmare that involved dozens of people reviewing tens of thousands of parts across hundreds of components with multiple revisions. I was involved for two years and that wasn't even the entire thing. Most changes required multiple layers of analysis/engineering review, change proposals (which often had to pass change review boards), vendor negotiations, manufacturer negotiations, reams of documentation about changes to refit procedures for previously produced HW, testing, validation, etc.

Removing Mexico and Canada from supply chains would be even worse. Probably nigh-impossible for some OEMs.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#252

Post by thinkcontext »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #154
cogman10 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're exaggerating to try to make a point What am I exaggerating? > if the mob had gotten into Congress, Correct, which we have documents, conversations and even zipties which show that was the plan. > if the mob had offed Democrats Again, multiple conversations and recordings of mob members specifically saying this was the plan. > if the Republicans then rubber stamped it and didn't have their own objections Ther…

One nit: The military is not bound to follow the executive. They are bound to follow the Constitution . I still retain enough naive optimism to hope that, had it come to that, that distinction would have mattered.

J6 made me wonder how many Michael Flynns would it take to get some part of the military to take part in a coup.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#253

Post by pas »

alephnerd wrote: post #241
sinuhe69 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the origins are so fuzzy, I guess other manufacturers would very soon adjust their part lists/part origins to avoid the tariff?

Even in normal times regulators don't take kindly to origination fraud even, so it's highly unlikely anyone will risk it with an admin like the current one. Look at what happened to Amazon earlier today and SentinelOne last week. Most manufacturers will eat the cost and raise prices to a certain extent. Base models of any product tend to be manufactured in such as way that they have much looser margins.

what happened to SentinelOne last week? :o

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#254

Post by rayiner »

matwood wrote: post #194
sidibe wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't forget being "for the rule of law".

Back the blue, unless of course it's the Capitol Police.

Most of these examples are good ones, but this one actually isn’t. I don’t know what part of the country you’re from, but in the south violence against the government is treated as distinct from violence against fellow citizens. I don’t want to debate the substance of the view, I’m just pointing out that it’s not actually contradictory like you’re implying. I grew up in virginia when it was a red state, my first reaction would’ve been relief that it was still possible. But it also would’ve been my first reaction 25 years ago when I was a Gore supporter in a Bush county. Jefferson’s tree of liberty and all that.

I suspect this divergence comes from people who have internalized the 1960s civil rights movement view, and whose chief concern is the government protecting minorities from the majority. Meanwhile, the more traditional Anglo-american view is chiefly concerned with protecting the majority from the government.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#255

Post by Capricorn2481 »

nkrisc wrote: post #242
rat87 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think most Republicans want the destruction of our country so no I don't think he's an accurate reflection

And yet he dominates the party. How could that be without popular support from the party base?

Because Fox, and Newsmax work overtime to convince people that Trump wouldn't do the things he said, and he'll actually do the good things people want. And that if anything bad happens, it's the aftershock of previous administrations (of which, Trump's is exempt, of course).

You don't have to be tapped in to see that whatever is said on Fox becomes Republican dogma very quickly. That's why half the country is more concerned that Zelenskyy is, somehow, a dictator, and less concerned that we ushered Russian state media into our white house.

It's an embarrassing state we're in, but many voters have been fostered with complete incuriosity with what Republican politicians stand for.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#256

Post by leereeves »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #251
sinuhe69 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the origins are so fuzzy, I guess other manufacturers would very soon adjust their part lists/part origins to avoid the tariff?

Fuzzy in the sense of "you need a bunch of experts and lawyers to sit down to determine what the correct answer for the government is in any specific situation". The work is exceedingly tedious and expensive. I was involved in similar efforts to remove Chinese parts from the supply chain during the previous Trump administration. It was a nightmare that involved dozens of people reviewing tens of thousands of parts ac…

> Probably nigh-impossible for some OEMs.

Impossible meaning the parts aren't yet manufactured in the US, or that they can't be for some reason?

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#257

Post by Brian_K_White »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #231
Brian_K_White wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to imply that I believe they are excellent people who will take care of us all, nor that there is any illuminati cabal like that other ludicrous comment. I only mean to imply they are people who know how to get what they want, and are willing to do more or less anything. There is a new story that Amazon is going to overtly display the tarrif on every price. That is like 1% of the kind of thing I'm thinki…

You've missed the tail end of that story - Trump made an angry call to Bezos, presumably full of threats, after which Bezos announced that they weren't going to do that and totally never planned to.

It's still an example of a lever.

He didn't pull it but that's a seperate issue and actually exactly my point, why not? Or for that matter, maybe he did pull it, maybe he caused the story to even appear in the first place, or maybe they will do it regardless what he just said. Maybe he has something less obvious he's working on, or maybe he's somehow fine with the tarriff.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#258

Post by globalise83 »

viraptor wrote: post #199
stevage wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And absolutely no guarantees those rules stay in place long enough for anyone else to ever benefit.

Ideally that's the long term goal though, right? You want good local production, but not impair the trade forever. The best tariff would be a future one that achieves the shift by threat, then gets cancelled because the goal is complete and there's no point is impacting trade otherwise.

If companies believe today that in 4 years the tariffs will be dropped and that their investment in a manufacturing facility with 25% higher costs than the foreign competition will become effectively worthless, they will be reluctant to invest all that much.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#259

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 »

_2d30 wrote: post #213
A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? If anything, it now should be clearer than ever that it has been for a long time. The only difference is that the oligarch that happens to be benefiting from it is in the public spotlight, associated with and part of the current administration, and at the same time main guy for several publicly owned companies. If the other oligarchs seem to be doing nothing, it is not because they have no power to wield. Good g…

> If the other oligarchs seem to be doing nothing, it is not because they have no power to wield. Good grief, this is just an axiomatic belief, then. No evidence will sway you one way or another.

What part of oligarch is hard to translate into sufficient amount of evidence that does not require me to prove that 1000 million dollars might result in an ability to wield influence that a a simple individual like meself would consider mildly outsized? At this point it is like gravity. You don't have to believe it. It is just is.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#260

Post by matheusmoreira »

leereeves wrote: post #256
AlotOfReading wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuzzy in the sense of "you need a bunch of experts and lawyers to sit down to determine what the correct answer for the government is in any specific situation". The work is exceedingly tedious and expensive. I was involved in similar efforts to remove Chinese parts from the supply chain during the previous Trump administration. It was a nightmare that involved dozens of people reviewing tens of thousands of parts ac…

> Probably nigh-impossible for some OEMs. Impossible meaning the parts aren't yet manufactured in the US, or that they can't be for some reason?

There's no doubt that they could be. Just not as cheaply.
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