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Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

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Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#161

Post by JumpCrisscross »

moralestapia wrote: post #105
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then the exact same discussion will come up with a different number No? The point is there is no reason for the number 85 other than benefiting Tesla. The metacognitive question should be how one should estimate that variable in a way which balances disruption with incentivising the desired outcome.

Explain how the number 90 would be different than the number 85? Provide source for any claims you make.

> Explain how the number 90 would be different than the number 85?

Qualitatively? Tesla wouldn’t qualify.

Practically? It isn’t. The same way there isn’t a difference between 85 and 80 other than keeping out Ford.

There is no methodology presented for how 85 was estimated. There probably wasn’t one, given the track record with the tariff rates.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#162

Post by sd8f9iu »

esalman wrote: post #122

The irony here is that Democrats, for more than a decade, did anything and everything, by bankrolling taxpayers money into incentives and subsidies, to protect Tesla, help it compete and even flourish and scale, in the auto market where margins are razor thin and true innovations are hard to come by, even less so from smaller players. Nobody, except Republicans, batted an eye because climate change, science and envir…

Climate change, science, and the environment are indeed valid reasons (as was plainly stated at the time) for subsidies to electric cars (amongst hundreds of billions of dollars of other environmental subsidies Democrats passed). The CEO spending hundreds of millions of dollars to curry favor with the ruling party, which is almost certainly the reason this specific number was chosen, is not.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#163

Post by JumpCrisscross »

stevage wrote: post #137
viraptor wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just the idea in isolation though. I don't think anyone would complain much if the rule was "in N mths the threshold is X". Everyone could do the necessary adjustments and play by the same rules. But if the rule applies immediately, favours the guy who gave you millions, and impacts the competition financially where they need to make me investments to comply with the rules... yeah, that stinks even if it loo…

And absolutely no guarantees those rules stay in place long enough for anyone else to ever benefit.

> no guarantees those rules stay in place long enough for anyone else to ever benefit

Not only that, Trump is actively lying about negotiating them down [1].

[1] https://www.reuters.com/world/chinas-foreign-ministry-says-x...

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#164

Post by porphyra »

lenerdenator wrote: post #115
porphyra wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the long run, unions can be blamed for this whole Trump Presidency. Biden was pressured by unions to snub Tesla at the EV summit. This personally offended Elon, who then went to support Trump with all sorts of tactics including buying Twitter to amplify his voice.

> In the long run, unions can be blamed for this whole Trump Presidency. Yeah, how dare they do the things that make reactionaries be... reactionary.

The democrats also tried to pass legislation in 2021 that excludes Tesla from an EV credit due to it being not built by unions, even though Tesla has by far the largest share of electric vehicles and is the most productive and innovative company in this sector.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#165

Post by porphyra »

ivape wrote: post #108
porphyra wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the long run, unions can be blamed for this whole Trump Presidency. Biden was pressured by unions to snub Tesla at the EV summit. This personally offended Elon, who then went to support Trump with all sorts of tactics including buying Twitter to amplify his voice.

Is Citizen's United the only thing that allowed one person to donate $150 million? This is the obvious flaw. We would need a RICO type framework to identify the basket of vectors that one person/organization can use to funnel money to a candidate. This is a bipartisan issue but I don't know how we can surface the narrative so more people can talk about it.

I agree that allowing elections to be influenced by spending money was a mistake. Campaign spending is way out of control and it reduces our leaders and politicians into desperately begging for donations.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#167

Post by JumpCrisscross »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #151

So how does this encourage a shift to domestic manufacturing? It's basically a reward for those who have already done what you want rather than incentivizing those who's behavior you'd like to change. It's a carrot for sure, but the carrot is out of reach since now you're putting financial stress on those you're hoping to bear the cost of moving onshore by giving an advantage to their competitors. It's similar to giv…

> how does this encourage a shift to domestic manufacturing?

It doesn’t. Trump is clearly trying to negotiate these tariffs away. So they don’t incentivise moving production. Just taxing everyone but Musk.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#168

Post by potato3732842 »

fullshark wrote: post #143
_2d30 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump has literally been prattling about his love of tariffs for decades and was explicit about his plans to heavily leverage tariffs during his campaign.. I think you might just want an excuse to believe what you already believe

I just think a lot of democrats really haven't paid attention to how Trump has morphed the Republican party and the realignment that has been going on. They still think of a Republican as George w. Bush / John McCain / Mitt Romney even though they have all been effectively excommunicated from the party. I think part of it was hope was Trump was a momentary blip but that's obviously no longer the case.

Everyday people have been clamoring for some sort of change for a long time. 00s at least. It reached a boiling point in the late 2010s and you had a nearly parallel rise of Trump and Bernie. The difference is that the republicans couldn't keep a lid on Trump and his backers like the democrats did to Bernie. So Trump got in and then politicians "built in his image" started getting elected all over the place. So now the republicans have a party that more accurately reflects what people want. And they'll use that to mop the floor with the democrats until the democrats turn their own party over to reflect what voters want.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#169

Post by cosmicgadget »

esalman wrote: post #122

The irony here is that Democrats, for more than a decade, did anything and everything, by bankrolling taxpayers money into incentives and subsidies, to protect Tesla, help it compete and even flourish and scale, in the auto market where margins are razor thin and true innovations are hard to come by, even less so from smaller players. Nobody, except Republicans, batted an eye because climate change, science and envir…

Tesla's success/threat pushed traditional automakers to actually build EVs at scale. It convinced consumers that EVs are viable and kickstarted charging infrastructure. The left accomplished its goal even if it probably would have preferred Elon not go all Kanye on us.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#170

Post by esalman »

A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote: post #142
hiddencost wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

He is right you know. He managed to fleece dems and is now fleecing the other side. Neutral observer can only stay in awe of his talents.

Thanks, I am indeed talking as a neutral observer. It's been almost 7 years since I realized how much of a nutcase he is. Some democrats only realized it 8 months ago.
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