Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

fuelarc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 728 posts

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#151

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

So how does this encourage a shift to domestic manufacturing? It's basically a reward for those who have already done what you want rather than incentivizing those who's behavior you'd like to change. It's a carrot for sure, but the carrot is out of reach since now you're putting financial stress on those you're hoping to bear the cost of moving onshore by giving an advantage to their competitors.

It's similar to giving special status to Apple by not penalizing their China-based manufacturing, then hoping that OTHER not-too-big-to-fail companies will be able to do what Apple couldn't (manufacture at a competitively cheap price onshore) while additionally facing this unfair competition.

It seems it'd be more effective to have incremental (based on % domestic manufacture & labor) rewards/penalties for those making changes rather than carve-outs for those too-big-to-fail and making competition even harder for those you are trying to incentivize.

Also, never mind manufacturing - how about addressing IT offhsoring, which is something far easier for US companies to change if incentivized/penalized appropriately. Is it really domestic clothing sweatshops that we want to encourage, not domestic high-tech industry with well paying jobs, paying high taxes, and helping retain onshore talent in an area of importance to national security?

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#152

Post by tomrod »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #146
cogman10 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're exaggerating to try to make a point What am I exaggerating? > if the mob had gotten into Congress, Correct, which we have documents, conversations and even zipties which show that was the plan. > if the mob had offed Democrats Again, multiple conversations and recordings of mob members specifically saying this was the plan. > if the Republicans then rubber stamped it and didn't have their own objections Ther…

No, you’re stuck with trying to overplay how significant J6 was. Even if it was considered by the participants to be a coup, it’s irrelevant because it simply did not have the manpower, or any chance at taking out all of the branches of government to a significant degree. Even if all of Congress and SCOTUS was killed, there is a line of succession (created in case of nuclear war) which states would then follow. The c…

Since you're convinced it couldn't be a coup, would you mind helping see your point of view? How many people would be needed and/or what outcomes would we observe for you to believe it was a coup?

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#153

Post by AnimalMuppet »

cogman10 wrote: post #81
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They stood back and did nothing There's no reason to have a full allergic reaction to a mosquito bite.

The mob was literally minutes away from congressional people. They further kept those same congresspeople surrounded and locked up for hours until Trump called them off. Ashley Babbitt died because she broken through the last barrier between the mob and congress. Had this mob been armed (and there were plans of being armed that were ultimately scuttled), it could have been a blood bath. There was only a handful of LE…

I don't think the point was to kill a bunch of Democrats. I think the point was to either kill or pressure Vice President Pence, so that he (or his successor) would accept the "alternate" (false) electors as legitimate. I think the shouts of "hang Mike Pence" were aimed that direction.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#154

Post by AnimalMuppet »

cogman10 wrote: post #124
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're exaggerating to try to make a point, but I'm not convinced. You're saying that it could have been much worse if the mob had gotten into Congress, followed by if the mob had offed Democrats, followed by if the Republicans then rubber stamped it and didn't have their own objections, followed by if the Supreme Court was also killed or if the Supreme Court chose to take no action and if the states involved like Ca…

> You're exaggerating to try to make a point What am I exaggerating? > if the mob had gotten into Congress, Correct, which we have documents, conversations and even zipties which show that was the plan. > if the mob had offed Democrats Again, multiple conversations and recordings of mob members specifically saying this was the plan. > if the Republicans then rubber stamped it and didn't have their own objections Ther…

One nit: The military is not bound to follow the executive. They are bound to follow the Constitution.

I still retain enough naive optimism to hope that, had it come to that, that distinction would have mattered.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#155

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 »

macintux wrote: post #133
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're exaggerating to try to make a point, but I'm not convinced. You're saying that it could have been much worse if the mob had gotten into Congress, followed by if the mob had offed Democrats, followed by if the Republicans then rubber stamped it and didn't have their own objections, followed by if the Supreme Court was also killed or if the Supreme Court chose to take no action and if the states involved like Ca…

All the mob had to do was steal the ballots, and we would have had a constitutional crisis. And during a constitutional crisis, the people with their hands already on the levers of power have a huge advantage,

I will say this, because I worry that some may have missed the memo. If you keep repeating constitutional crisis like it is some sort of magic word, each time you say it without some level of substantiation, it will continue to lose its power. It is mildly annoying to me that, some, democrat party adherents do not seem to understand this. I can give few more examples if necessary, but my subtle point is:

If everything is a constitutional crisis, nothing is.

Something to think about.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#156

Post by twoodfin »

ivape wrote: post #108
porphyra wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the long run, unions can be blamed for this whole Trump Presidency. Biden was pressured by unions to snub Tesla at the EV summit. This personally offended Elon, who then went to support Trump with all sorts of tactics including buying Twitter to amplify his voice.

Is Citizen's United the only thing that allowed one person to donate $150 million? This is the obvious flaw. We would need a RICO type framework to identify the basket of vectors that one person/organization can use to funnel money to a candidate. This is a bipartisan issue but I don't know how we can surface the narrative so more people can talk about it.

Citizens United has no impact on what an individual can do with his money. It’s purely about corporate spending by entities like IBM, the Sierra Club, or the New York Times Company.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#157

Post by rectang »

linguae wrote: post #125
fullshark wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “libertarians” who are in bed with Trump however…

The behavior I’ve seen from so many libertarians from 2017 onward, especially during the pandemic, January 6th, and Trump’s reelection, has revealed so much to me and has made me rethink my libertarianism. So many libertarians, when pressed, would gladly align themselves with the far-right for their own benefit, whether to accelerate the destruction of the state they hate so much, or whether because, deep down inside…

Thanks for the thoughtful post with the rich historical references. For what it’s worth, I experienced a drift which is the mirror image of yours, starting left, developing my appreciation for the necessity of economic competition, and then coming to grips with the limitations of government intervention.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#158

Post by fnordpiglet »

nostromo wrote: post #67
gkoberger wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why 85% and not 80%? It’s an arbitrary cutoff that happens to benefit Elon. Ford will quickly get to 85%, but you can’t deny this is yet again a move that is touted as “pro-America” yet somehow mainly benefits Musk (or Trump or someone in their orbit).

Three Tesla models meet the 85% threshold and three do not. If Tesla was writing these rules, surely they'd have chosen the 80% threshold instead. I doubt they see the Ford Mustang as being in their same target market, and wouldn't be a reason to increase the standard.

I’d note the ones that meet the threshold are by far the vast majority of Tesla sales and profit. This puts them at a structural advantage. Those three models account for 95% of deliveries in 2024. The rules as stand only impact their highest margin vehicles, which account for 4.8% of their total deliveries.

The fact that Elon Musk is personally involved in the decision making and cabinet level discussions and personally benefits immensely- and exclusively- from this special carve out looks like rank corruption on the surface and at face value. Any other administration in history would be investigated until the cows come home if something comparable had ever happened. Even if it somehow eluded the rule makers that they exempted 95% of one companies sales to the exclusion of all other companies and that companies CEO had curried extensive favor with the administration and this was a mistake, the appearance of gross impropriety and conflicts of interest should cause a rapid reset and roll back. I suspect, however, it will not be rolled back, and that they were entirely aware of what they were doing. This is what kleptocracy looks like.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#159

Post by dragonwriter »

ivape wrote: post #108
porphyra wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the long run, unions can be blamed for this whole Trump Presidency. Biden was pressured by unions to snub Tesla at the EV summit. This personally offended Elon, who then went to support Trump with all sorts of tactics including buying Twitter to amplify his voice.

Is Citizen's United the only thing that allowed one person to donate $150 million? This is the obvious flaw. We would need a RICO type framework to identify the basket of vectors that one person/organization can use to funnel money to a candidate. This is a bipartisan issue but I don't know how we can surface the narrative so more people can talk about it.

I think you are confusing Citizens United v FEC (2010) with Buckley v. Valeo (1976). (CU is largely “corporations are people applies in the application of Buckley”.)

Though, also, neither decision impacts limitations on donations to candidates, both address limitations on expenditures (in Buckley’s case by non-candidate persons independent of campaigns, by candidates from personal funds, and by candidates in aggregate; CU mostly deals with the first of those where the legal person is a corporation and not a natural person.)

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#160

Post by rco8786 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #112
rco8786 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a coincidence that the only company that currently fits the criteria is Tesla then. Everyone else can start rearranging their supply chains and building new factories to comply. Easy peasy right? Be up and running in a few weeks, at most, right?

I think Honda already has like 75% American parts in the cars they produce in Indiana. It was actually listed on the Acura ILX I bought from them awhile back.

That's great, I'm all for seeing that number increase. That doesn't take away the fact that this number just explicitly targets Tesla and nobody else.
Post reply on HN