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Oracle engineers caused five days software outage at U.S. hospitals

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Re: Oracle engineers caused five days software outage at U.S. hospitals

#81

Oracle has a horrible reputation among devs. But I think they bypass devs for purchase decisions and straight up wine and dine and bamboozle the low information execs. When I worked at a megacorp as a dev, I had near zero say in such purchase decisions. I had to work with what I was given. Thankfully I work for a much smaller shop now. Better pay and much better decision autonomy.

Steaks and strippers!

Miss`d Steaks were made!

Re: Oracle engineers caused five days software outage at U.S. hospitals

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, Postgres beats OracleDB Are we sure? I'm by no means a DBA, but DBA at our company (who is freaking smart btw) said if money wasn't an issue, he would actually go with OracleDB.

Postgres is a better choice for 99% of the companies out there. But there are cases where you need ability to massively scale AND control your database cluster perfectly. Postgres won't even let your force an execution plan and ignores hints (yes, there is an extension for that) so your optimized query can at some point just 10x in execution time and increase load in production when the plan changes. In Oracle, I am…

> Postgres won't even let your force an execution plan and ignores hints

Finally, an actual technical argument. I agree that PostgreSQL's absolute insistence on trusting the query optimiser to Do The Right Thing is weird and annoying (despite being sound general strategy). It even seems to contradict its own general spirit of being on the whole extremely customisable -- you can make your own data types, operators, indexing data structures, complete scripting language plugins... but not, ya know, a way to 100% guarantee that this here query will use this here execution plan.

Re: Oracle engineers caused five days software outage at U.S. hospitals

#83
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I managed to break production before vibe coding was cool. 20 years old me had rm -fr root access to way too many systems. I don't think it's much different today. If anything, I think the youngsters will learn faster from their mistakes because they already have good mentor for the easy stuff and will get grinded on the hard stuff sooner.

> If anything, I think the youngsters will learn faster from their mistakes because they already have good mentor for the easy stuff and will get grinded on the hard stuff sooner. Maybe? Back when I had to troubleshoot coaxial network terminations uphill both ways in the snow, we had to learn how things actually work (e.g., what's in a tcp header, how to read an RFC) and that made debugging things a little more strai…

On the other hand, understanding coax termination is much easier than figuring out what 5G or Wifi6 is doing with radio waves.

Re: Oracle engineers caused five days software outage at U.S. hospitals

#84
post #41

I hate working on production systems and I hate any action that can't be easily reversed like deleting stuff.

Yeah, I like working under ideal conditions too. And I also want a toilet made of solid gold.

Why solid gold? It would be way too ductile, heavy, and conduct far too much heat.

Diamond might actually be better: low surface energy means a low coefficient of friction, so it would be much easier to clean. It would still suck the heat right out of your cheeks, though.

Realistically, porcelain or other ceramics are probably the ideal material.

Re: Oracle engineers caused five days software outage at U.S. hospitals

#85
post #73
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Oracle has a horrible reputation among devs. But I think they bypass devs for purchase decisions and straight up wine and dine and bamboozle the low information execs. That is only partially true. Oracle has a wide portfolio of a bunch of products and the "wine & dine the execs" is the sales cycle for software like ERP Oracle E-Business Suite and Oracle Health (Cerner). E.g. it's the hospital CFO & CIO that are the…

I’d take oracle over MS SQL any day. That said I’d take PostgreSQL over oracle any day.

Curious if that is from recent experience? I used Oracle decades ago but these days it's all SQL Server.

Re: Oracle engineers caused five days software outage at U.S. hospitals

#87
post #57

Is this the same Oracle/Cerner system ("Millennium", I believe) that, despite protests from the medical staff, was deployed "big-bang style" in the Swedish region of Västra Götaland, with much the same results? (And where during a press conference, where the management was explaining how nearly everything was going to plan, a doctor, who had somehow sneaked in, got up, shouted something to the effect of "you’re lying…

[deleted]

Re: Oracle engineers caused five days software outage at U.S. hospitals

#88
Used to work on CHS systems for Cerner. If I am not mistaken they were a "communityworks" client, which meant their databases were shared with a number of other clients - a "multitenent" envirnment, we called it. Completely bumblefucked design. Not surprised somthing like this happened.

Also - cerner software in general allowed hospitals to freely completely fuck up their own architecture. Sometimes ireperably.

If anyone has details about how this happened Id love to hear.

Re: Oracle engineers caused five days software outage at U.S. hospitals

#89

I'd risk to say it was compounding interest on tech debt, but it doesn't sound as sexy, does it?

> engineers conducting maintenance work mistakenly deleted critical storage connected to a key database I'd say poor process management. Why is an engineer even deleting critical storage (I take that to mean that they are deleting something of a file-system). Perhaps they where dropping a database, but you wouldn't do it like that in a critical environment. You'd disable the database access first, and then after some…

This should be the top comment.

Re: Oracle engineers caused five days software outage at U.S. hospitals

#90

“Engineers” Must be engineers who write requirements and unrealistic deadlines that lead to such issues.

Idk, when I worked at cerner, literally anyone could ssh into a hospitals cerner and drop tables if they wanted to. Nothin stoppin you.

I would regularly write massive update/insert statements on production DBs to fix issues.

So, yeah, id imagine this was the engineers fault.

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