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Reports of the death of California High-Speed Rail have been greatly exaggerated

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Re: Reports of the death of California High-Speed Rail have been greatly exaggerated

#371

Post by saagarjha »

BurningFrog wrote: post #130
pj_mukh wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's actually the opposite. The latent demand is only present in LA and SF. Fresno and Bakersfield are not car-less cities. Taking a train between them makes no sense (you're gonna have to rent a car on either end). While connecting the LA Metro and SF BART with a high speed rail line makes the most sense. Regardless of the construction inefficiencies this is really the original sin beating at the heart of th…

> you're gonna have to rent a car on either end BTW, this is one big reason HSR isn't a great fit for the US. In most countries, you arrive to major city by train, and you then move around the city using the local train network. This is only barely true for a few US cities, so even if HSR lines are built, they won't be as useful here.

San Francisco is one of those cities.

Re: Reports of the death of California High-Speed Rail have been greatly exaggerated

#372

Post by agent281 »

ActorNightly wrote: post #335
ImJamal wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every one is anti-NIMBY until they own a backyard, then they don't want their house to be eminent domained or have a noisy train running near them.

The problem is that they have the option to own a house to begin with. Cali cities need to be all high rise apartment buildings. Once the government starts raising property taxes, people will start selling off their homes, and then developers can buy the land and build apartments.

California can't raise property taxes unless Prop 13 is repealed and that's a very high bar to pass.

Re: Reports of the death of California High-Speed Rail have been greatly exaggerated

#373

Post by saagarjha »

ImJamal wrote: post #299
ActorNightly wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More young people need to actually start voting to get all the NIMBYism out of the government, and then change can happen.

Every one is anti-NIMBY until they own a backyard, then they don't want their house to be eminent domained or have a noisy train running near them.

If you put a stop nearby I'll let you run the tracks through my living room

Re: Reports of the death of California High-Speed Rail have been greatly exaggerated

#375

Post by saagarjha »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #326
anon7000 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try riding real HSR, like Madrid to Barcelona. Superior to flying in every way.

> You should try riding real HSR, like Madrid to Barcelona Within countries, yes. Between countries, never again. Italy France sort of worked, but the UK and Germany consistently ruined everything.

Thankfully California is, last I checked, in one country.

Re: Reports of the death of California High-Speed Rail have been greatly exaggerated

#376

Post by arrowsmith »

anon7000 wrote: post #305
aylmao wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my region (Latin America) when a "boondoggle" of such high monetary cost happens, we call it for what it usually is— corruption. All those billions of dollars are going to someone's pockets. There's a lot of money to be made from inefficient infrastructure projects.

Well, in this case, the problem is more so that money wasn’t spent on large swaths of the project.

Idk about Canada, but what you usually see in the UK is that tens of millions of pounds get spend before a single brick is laid.

Money disappears into consultations, reviews, studies and reports of dubious value, the paperwork keeps piling up and it takes years before the public sees anything tangible, if the project ever gets built at all.

Someone somewhere is getting very rich off this, but it ain't the taxpayer.

Re: Reports of the death of California High-Speed Rail have been greatly exaggerated

#377

Post by agent281 »

babyent wrote: post #307
anon7000 wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should try riding real HSR, like Madrid to Barcelona. Superior to flying in every way.

I live in America. I’m sure Europe has nice trains. I’ve rode the best trains in the world in Japan. America is a completely different dynamic and is not at all comparable to Europe nor Japan. The culture here has always revolved around cars (objectively better IMO for ME, I don’t like tiny cramped cities like in EU or Japan), and our roads are big and our buildings are large and really nice. New builds especially in…

I live in America. I have all my life. I've ridden on nice trains in Europe and Japan. The culture in the last 80-100 years has revolved around cars, but before that relied heavily on trains.

I much prefer riding a spacious train to riding in a cramped airplane. I like to be able to get up and walk around while the train is traveling. I prefer the minimal security processes on a train to an airplane.

Driving 6-10 hours is pretty miserable. I would much rather take a train or fly unless there are specific reasons why I need to drive.

It may be like comparing apples and oranges, but some people prefer apples. The good thing is that you can still eat oranges if you like.

Re: Reports of the death of California High-Speed Rail have been greatly exaggerated

#378

Post by johnnyanmac »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #349
johnnyanmac wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That will be a relief. Though if I may rant a bit to a bikeshed: I really hate that thr naming scheme of "people mover" was probably part of the reason this project is coming next year and not 2035. The phrase itself just oozes this sentiment that no one politically involved was allowed to say "train" or "rail" so it doesn't scare off investors.

Actually a "people mover" is a term of art [1]. I had the same reaction when I heard the term (or thought it was some other political gloss to get the thing approved faster), but it's actually a somewhat well-defined term. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_mover

>The term 'people mover' was used by Walt Disney, when he and his Imagineers were working on the new 1967 Tomorrowland at Disneyland. The name was used as a working title for a new attraction, the PeopleMover. According to Imagineer Bob Gurr, "the name got stuck," and it was no longer a working title.

Huh. Thinking about it does sound like a very "Disney" term. Interesting to think it spread from a resort park to professional transportation. Never would have guessed.

The reasoning is all too relatable as well. "working names" no one works on and suddenly it's your final product name. Such anti-bikeshedding would be very rare these days.

Re: Reports of the death of California High-Speed Rail have been greatly exaggerated

#379

Post by reverius42 »

WalterBright wrote: post #334
wiml wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sound Transit operates LINK (what gp was talking about) and Sounder (not light rail, operates on BNSF tracks, coaches are made by Bombardier and seem to be in use by many commuter rail systems). Not sure what you're referring to.

The train that runs from downtown to Seatac.

That's LINK light rail, operated by Sound Transit. Here's an article about the (new) cars they use: https://www.soundtransit.org/blog/platform/new-link-light-ra... -- I get the impression all light rail cars in general are made to order per specifications, rather than off-the-shelf.

Re: Reports of the death of California High-Speed Rail have been greatly exaggerated

#380

Post by JumpCrisscross »

saagarjha wrote: post #375
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You should try riding real HSR, like Madrid to Barcelona Within countries, yes. Between countries, never again. Italy France sort of worked, but the UK and Germany consistently ruined everything.

Thankfully California is, last I checked, in one country.

> Thankfully California is, last I checked, in one country

You can replicate the experience between Caltrain and BART.

To my knowledge, the HSR will share tracks with other trains. That makes the sort of scheduling problems that make Amtrak a pain more of a possibility. Not a reason to shoot down the project. But a decent reason to take OP's concerns seriously.

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