The biggest announcement of LlamaCon week!
...unless DeepSeek releases R2 to crash the party further
Qwen3: Think deeper, act faster
211–220 of 412 posts
Re: Qwen3: Think deeper, act faster
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, no, no. Each of them gives you information.
In the formal, information-theory sense, they literally don't, at least not on their own without further constraints (like band-limiting or bounded polynomial degree or the like)
They give you relative information. Like word2vec
Re: Qwen3: Think deeper, act faster
#213As is now traditional for new LLM releases, I used Qwen 3 (32B, run via Ollama on a Mac) to summarize this Hacker News conversation about itself - run at the point when it hit 112 comments. The results were kind of fascinating, because it appeared to confuse my system prompt telling it to summarize the conversation with the various questions asked in the post itself, which it tried to answer. I don't think it did a g…
Aren't all Qwen models known to perform poorly with system prompt though?
Re: Qwen3: Think deeper, act faster
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you please share the problem?
I don't really want it added to the training set, but eh. Here you go: > Assume I have a 3D printer that's currently printing, and I pause the print. What expends more energy, keeping the hotend at some temperature above room temperature and heating it up the rest of the way when I want to use it, or turning it completely off and then heat it all the way when I need it? Is there an amount of time beyond which the ans…
What kind of answer do you expect? It all depends on the hotend shape and material, temperature differences, how fast air moves in the room, humidity of the air, etc.
Re: Qwen3: Think deeper, act faster
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
The plural of anecdote is data.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_cliche
Ahhhahhahahaha stavros is so right but this is such high level bickering I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. Ya’ll are awesome! dymk you deserve a touché for this one.
The challenge for sharing data at this stage of the game is that the game is rigged in datas favor. So stavros I hear you.
To clarify, if we post our data it’s just going to get fed back into the models making it even harder to vet iterations as they advance.
Re: Qwen3: Think deeper, act faster
#216I have a small physics-based problem I pose to LLMs. It's tricky for humans as well, and all LLMs I've tried (GPT o3, Claude 3.7, Gemini 2.5 Pro) fail to answer correctly. If I ask them to explain their answer, they do get it eventually, but none get it right the first time. Qwen3 with max thinking got it even more wrong than the rest, for what it's worth.
I similarly have a small, simple spatial reasoning problem that only reasoning models get right, and not all of them, and which Qwen3 on max reasoning still gets wrong. > I put a coin in a cup and slam it upside-down on a glass table. I can't see the coin because the cup is over it. I slide a mirror under the table and see heads. What will I see if I take the cup (and the mirror) away?
[deleted]
Re: Qwen3: Think deeper, act faster
#217As is now traditional for new LLM releases, I used Qwen 3 (32B, run via Ollama on a Mac) to summarize this Hacker News conversation about itself - run at the point when it hit 112 comments. The results were kind of fascinating, because it appeared to confuse my system prompt telling it to summarize the conversation with the various questions asked in the post itself, which it tried to answer. I don't think it did a g…
Aren't all Qwen models known to perform poorly with system prompt though?
Qwen does decently, DeepSeek doesn't like system prompts. For Qwen you really have to play with parameters
Re: Qwen3: Think deeper, act faster
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
Small and dense models are what local people really need. Disagreed. Small and dense is dumber and slower for local inferencing. MoEs is what people actually want on local.
YMMV. Parameter efficiency is an important consideration, if not the most important one, for local LLMs because of the hardware constraint. Do you guys really have GPUs with 80GB VRAM or M3 ultra with 512GB rams at home? If I can't run these ultra large MoEs locally, then these models mean nothing to me. I'm not a large LLM inference provider after all. What's more, you also lose the opportunities to fine-tune these…
What people actually want is something like GPT4o/o1 running locally. That's the dream for local LLM people.
Running a 7b model for fun is not what people actually want. 7b models are very niche oriented.
Re: Qwen3: Think deeper, act faster
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
Only in the same way that the plural of 'opinion' is 'fact' ;)
Except, very literally, data is a collection of single points (ie what we call "anecdotes").
No. Anecdote, ἀνέκδοτον, is a story that points to some abstract idea, commonly having something to do with morals. The word means 'not given out'/'not-out-given'. Data is the plural of datum, and arrives in english not from greek, but from latin. The root is however the same as in anecdote, and datum means 'given'. Saying that 'not-given' and 'collection of givens' is the same is clearly nonsensical.
A datum has a value and a context in which it was 'given'. What you mean by "points" eludes me, maybe you could elaborate.
Re: Qwen3: Think deeper, act faster
#220As is now traditional for new LLM releases, I used Qwen 3 (32B, run via Ollama on a Mac) to summarize this Hacker News conversation about itself - run at the point when it hit 112 comments. The results were kind of fascinating, because it appeared to confuse my system prompt telling it to summarize the conversation with the various questions asked in the post itself, which it tried to answer. I don't think it did a g…
Aren't all Qwen models known to perform poorly with system prompt though?
I hadn't heard that, but it would certainly explain why the model made a mess of this task.
Tried it again like this, using a regular prompt rather than a system prompt (with the https://github.com/simonw/llm-hacker-news plugin for the hn: prefix):
llm -f hn:43825900 \
'Summarize the themes of the opinions expressed here.
For each theme, output a markdown header.
Include direct "quotations" (with author attribution) where appropriate.
You MUST quote directly from users when crediting them, with double quotes.
Fix HTML entities. Output markdown. Go long. Include a section of quotes that illustrate opinions uncommon in the rest of the piece' \
-m qwen3:32b