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Reports of the death of California High-Speed Rail have been greatly exaggerated

asteriskmag.com

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Re: Reports of the death of California High-Speed Rail have been greatly exaggerated

#61
post #30

I think the biggest issue with CAHSR is that Florida just did it anyway.

Be careful citing the Brightline as a success. It is expensive, doesn't go to many places, has low ridership, regularly kills pedestrians and drivers, and is hemorrhaging money.

Re: Reports of the death of California High-Speed Rail have been greatly exaggerated

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What options are even left at this point? I suspect we're dealing with the fallout of the loss of an American nomos (shared values, traditions, and moral principles formalized into law, custom, and convention) -- the very issue John Adams wrote about in a 1798 letter: While our country remains untainted with the principles and manners which are now producing desolation in so many parts of the world; while she conti…

>But should the people of America once become capable of that deep simulation towards one another, and towards foreign nations, which assumes the language of justice and moderation, while it is practising iniquity and extravagance, and displays in the most captivating manner the charming pictures of candour, frankness, and sincerity, while it is working diligently under the cover of these pleasing appearances and emp…

John Adams in particular was not a slave owner, and he called slavery an "evil of colossal magnitude." So he and those like him (and there were many) shouldn't be condemned in any sense along that line.

I agree that slavery and ill treatment of Native Americans were egregious problems. But on both issues, there were prominent voices speaking out in favor of what was right, including among the founding fathers -- Ben Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, etc. Also, William Penn (founder of Pennsylvania) was an awesome example of someone who insisted on honest, fair dealings with Native Americans, and he won their respect in a big way.

Re: Reports of the death of California High-Speed Rail have been greatly exaggerated

#63
post #37
post #7

The problem with local infrastructure projects is their responsibility and execution fall to local community leaders (in this case local = state of California). These leaders are far less efficient and impactful than the federal government, a bar which is already way too low. Nearly every city in the US has had recent collisions with corruption, blatant mismanagement, ideological forces co-opting process, etc. and so…

So I think the best argument against this is that the US has done massive infrastructure projects in the past. Some cities had (and some still have) decent public transportation and we've done large canals and even the interstate highway project. I've also seen local infrastructure (and I mean actually local, on the city/county level) be very impactful in the community. My experience is that unless the community real…

Some of the massive projects done by the USA involved tons of heartache and stress - but were deemed necessary.

When we want to, we move, and quickly. CA HSR is more indicative of people not really caring than of any major failure.

Re: Reports of the death of California High-Speed Rail have been greatly exaggerated

#64
post #15
post #7

The problem with local infrastructure projects is their responsibility and execution fall to local community leaders (in this case local = state of California). These leaders are far less efficient and impactful than the federal government, a bar which is already way too low. Nearly every city in the US has had recent collisions with corruption, blatant mismanagement, ideological forces co-opting process, etc. and so…

Calling the leaders of the State of California, the 4th largest economy in the world, "local" and less efficient than the federal government is interesting.

The main advantage the feds have is they can preempt the state. Versa vice doesn’t work.

Re: Reports of the death of California High-Speed Rail have been greatly exaggerated

#65
post #13

One issue with "CA HSR" is that it isn't even "high speed". We may have happily referred to is as "high speed rail" 30 or 40 years ago but, given a possible completion date of 2035 (or whatever) the 2:40 travel time from SF LA is unimpressive ... and even that will not be achieved: "California legislative overseers do not expect the 2 hr 40 min target will be achieved."[1] The simple fact is that the I-5 corridor is…

Unfortunately there simply isn't enough demand between SF and LA alone to justify the insanely long stretches of a direct rail project.

A better way would have been to build it out from the city into the suburbs first as a commuter rail project. There isn't a ton of intercity demand for this rail, but there is tons of traffic in and out of each singular city to justify even medium speed rail.

Re: Reports of the death of California High-Speed Rail have been greatly exaggerated

#66
post #3

Imagination: Another ~3,800 words worth of "opinion". Reality: Zero miles of high-speed rail deployed. Many such cases. Edit: Downvote all you want, that still won't make the rails appear, lmao.

As the piece points out, the lack of rail is pretty much irrelevant. Once all the guideways are in place, there is a machine that you just drive along that poops out perfect rails at ~1km/hr. It is the most trivial part of the project.

That would be the Plasser & Theurer SVM1000 new-track construction machine.[1]

Incidentally, Caltrain is now up to high-speed rail standards except for grade crossing elimination. All welded rail on concrete ties, 25KV electrification, and the new commuter trains are capable of 125MPH, although they are not run that fast.

[1] https://youtu.be/XwiNaHmOscU?t=400

Re: Reports of the death of California High-Speed Rail have been greatly exaggerated

#67
post #36
post #13

One issue with "CA HSR" is that it isn't even "high speed". We may have happily referred to is as "high speed rail" 30 or 40 years ago but, given a possible completion date of 2035 (or whatever) the 2:40 travel time from SF LA is unimpressive ... and even that will not be achieved: "California legislative overseers do not expect the 2 hr 40 min target will be achieved."[1] The simple fact is that the I-5 corridor is…

Article states that I-5 corridor skips all major towns in central valley which kinda kills the purpose of HSR connecting SF to central valley towns to LA

"... which kinda kills the purpose of HSR connecting SF to central valley towns to LA ..."

Yes, that's exactly right.

The original - and highest value - purpose was a high speed rail route between SF and LA.

The meandering route through Fresno (and the new, ex post facto "purpose" the article refers to) is the result of political machinations that happened after the fact and traded utility for brief, local (and trivial) political gains.

Re: Reports of the death of California High-Speed Rail have been greatly exaggerated

#68
post #42

> Only if the Central Valley alignment had been selected would CAHSR actually the “train to nowhere” that critics deride it as. Can't wait to pay $400 per trip to visit all of these lovely places: https://hsr.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/20220427-Agend...

Not prioritizing the linking of two major cities (SF LA SD - take your pick) is a major mistake. If this project does end up cancelled then we will end up with a "High[sic]-Speed-Rail" that only joins California's interior cities with a ridership level that will never justify the cost.

Re: Reports of the death of California High-Speed Rail have been greatly exaggerated

#69
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article states that I-5 corridor skips all major towns in central valley which kinda kills the purpose of HSR connecting SF to central valley towns to LA

I thunk it boils down to the fact that acquiring land near San Francisco or LA through imminent domain would be both hideously expensive and extremely unpopular. Building "High Speed Rail to nowhere" in the Central Valley allowed them kick that can of political infighting down the road.

>and extremely unpopular

Who's shedding a tear for some farmer getting paid above market rates (presumably) for their land? California is probably the last place I'd expect people to think using eminent domain in this case is a slipper slope to communism or whatever.

Re: Reports of the death of California High-Speed Rail have been greatly exaggerated

#70

CAHSR was opined years before SR 85 and 87 and before VTA light rail. It's the perpetually never-happening, chicken-vs-egg aspirational project for mass transit in an area dominated by urban sprawl and car-first infrastructure that would need massive investment in local mass transit like Japan first.

LA has been investing very heavily in mass transit for decades, fwiw. If the terminals (SF and LA) can be navigated by transit, then leaving the car at home and taking the train becomes a plausible option for most people.

It always made more sense for me to leave the car at home and take the train to Chicago than deal with the traffic and parking in the city, it's hard to imagine SF being that different in that regard but i haven't been.

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