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I just want to code (2023)

zachbellay.com

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Re: I just want to code (2023)

#121

Post by Fripplebubby »

LandR wrote: post #114

Man, I work 8-4 Mon-Fri. As soon as 4 rolls around, I'm done with the money making portion of the day and the rest is just entirely fun stuff. I couldn't care less if what I'm doing isn't ever going to make money, it's just fun / interesting / satisfying curiosity. I run - but I know I'm never going to make money running. I climb - but I know I'm never going to make money climbing. I code for fun on my side projects…

I think part of the author's point is that, specifically if you are _coding_ for fun, it is much harder to "turn off" that part of your brain that analyzes it from a business perspective. It's not as if you can close one IDE at 4 and open another IDE at 4:01 at put yourself in a different mindset.

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#122

Post by Fripplebubby »

yapyap wrote: post #78
Arisaka1 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will preface this by saying that, I decided to stop pursuing a job as a software developer because my 2 years of work experience mean nothing in the job market. Now that I ended up finding a job as a waiter (of all things) I finally enjoy learning new things again. Before, I would get chronically stressed researching the job market, gathering keywords from job openings, consuming Udemy courses at 2x speed, using AI…

In all seriousness, being able to pinpoint what is causing the possible stress / load and making choices to get rid of that is pretty amazing, props! Though as for the job market, I’m sure the AI hype will blow over but I don’t think it’ll remain silent for long, there’ll be another nonsensical trend within reach. Tech needs to keep innovating to keep investors happy and keep investing. That’s why it’s going this AI…

> Tech needs to keep innovating to keep investors happy and keep investing.

It's nice to think that this is just a "tech" problem but unfortunately this is a wider problem in the rich world - it just so happens that "tech" has been the answer for finding huge economic growth for the past few decades. The whole economy is addicted to tech growth at this point (including your 401k if you have one, those of your your friends and neighbors).

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#123

Post by hombre_fatal »

mibsl wrote: post #118
hombre_fatal wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems reasonable that you would struggle with the opportunity cost of your time when you're writing software for fun since you could also be working towards a greater goal of launching something that might make money. Software is relatively unique because of the multiplying effects of software (without banking on a moonshot) unlike, say, carpentry or strumming a guitar. So the opportunity cost can be even higher. You…

Being always cognizant of opportunity costs also has an opportunity cost in terms of mental health and life satisfaction.

Depends on what you do with that information, doesn't it?

I think you want to embody both awareness and acceptance. And probably make a deliberate choice in the matter instead of just drifting.

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#124

Post by blenderob »

Fripplebubby wrote: post #121
LandR wrote: post #114

Man, I work 8-4 Mon-Fri. As soon as 4 rolls around, I'm done with the money making portion of the day and the rest is just entirely fun stuff. I couldn't care less if what I'm doing isn't ever going to make money, it's just fun / interesting / satisfying curiosity. I run - but I know I'm never going to make money running. I climb - but I know I'm never going to make money climbing. I code for fun on my side projects…

I think part of the author's point is that, specifically if you are _coding_ for fun, it is much harder to "turn off" that part of your brain that analyzes it from a business perspective. It's not as if you can close one IDE at 4 and open another IDE at 4:01 at put yourself in a different mindset.

Of course you can. (I mean many of us can.) I've been doing it for years. I'm surprised that because you find it hard to "turn off" that part of your brain, it must be so for everyone else. It isn't. There are many of us who code for fun and do it with a totally different mindset with no "business thoughts" in mind.

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#125

Post by pc86 »

sethammons wrote: post #87
zeroc8 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a cushion job. At least not when you are working on a huge codebase together with lots of other developers.

What other jobs have you had? I have been a photo lab assistant, a sign maker apprentice, a graphic designer, an insurance agent, a financial advisor, a construction worker and manual laborer, an inner-city math teacher, a software developer turned manager turn developer, now at the staff level. Software is the most cush job I have had. More money for less work. Better perks. Less stress overall. Constantly learning,…

100% - my friends who have only ever written code think it's a "hard" job in the objective sense. That among all possible jobs, it is on the difficult side of the spectrum.

I've been an EMT, a line cook, a dishwasher, a waiter, sold insurance, and worked on political campaigns. The easiest of all those is 10x harder than the hardest day of writing code.

It's frustrating at times, sure. There's office politics, sure. We probably have to deal with a disproportionate percentage of weaponized autism, sure.

But it is a cushy job and the "money per unit of effort" metric is off the charts compared to basically every other job I can think of, and definitely every other job I've ever had.

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#126

Post by 9rx »

ankurdhama wrote: post #51
xnickb wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Confidently wrong. Life is a bit more nuanced than that. Look at any popular open source project and tell me not a single contributor was having fun while writing it. I can give you examples of very high quality open source projects where I know for a fact that the person/team behind them were just having fun.

Let me clarify what I mean by for fun vs professionally. For fun means you make decisions based on "That feature would be fun to implement". Professionally means you make decision based on "That's what good for business". Based on these definitions most of the open source projects don't fall under "professionally" category.

Aside from maybe a handful of projects that got lucky squatting on the right name (e.g. left-pad), are there any popular open source projects that have become popular on "that would be fun to implement" rather than "that's what is good for business" (understanding the user, answering issues, implementing requested features, etc.)? The chances of your fun overlapping the exact market need seems rather slim.

Even among unpopular open source projects, I expect most of them are published as a way to demonstrate ability to employers rather than "that would be fun". The latter projects do exist, but it is surprising if they make up most open source projects.

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#127

Post by StefanBatory »

mibsl wrote: post #118
hombre_fatal wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems reasonable that you would struggle with the opportunity cost of your time when you're writing software for fun since you could also be working towards a greater goal of launching something that might make money. Software is relatively unique because of the multiplying effects of software (without banking on a moonshot) unlike, say, carpentry or strumming a guitar. So the opportunity cost can be even higher. You…

Being always cognizant of opportunity costs also has an opportunity cost in terms of mental health and life satisfaction.

I ended up on SSRI because of that, personally.

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#128

Post by Fripplebubby »

blenderob wrote: post #124
Fripplebubby wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think part of the author's point is that, specifically if you are _coding_ for fun, it is much harder to "turn off" that part of your brain that analyzes it from a business perspective. It's not as if you can close one IDE at 4 and open another IDE at 4:01 at put yourself in a different mindset.

Of course you can. (I mean many of us can.) I've been doing it for years. I'm surprised that because you find it hard to "turn off" that part of your brain, it must be so for everyone else. It isn't. There are many of us who code for fun and do it with a totally different mindset with no "business thoughts" in mind.

Speaking for myself, the author's post resonated with me in two ways - both that it's hard to turn off the business side of the brain ("Could this side project be a startup? Should I build it this way just in case I decide to do that later?") but also that I find it hard to turn off the manager brain ("Is this really the right order to do things? Is this the most valuable thing I could be doing?"), too, other people in the thread are mentioning thinking about opportunity cost to be interfering with their ability to commit to side projects (and also to actually _enjoy_ doing them).

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#129

Post by 59nadir »

onion2k wrote: post #108
alkonaut wrote: post #59

Do many people hobby code with that entrepreneur mindset thing? Or sit down to play guitar thinking they want to make a hit and feeling bad if they just noodle some cover songs? What a miserable existence that must be. How do you get that way? Should we blame LinkedIn or what is it?

What a miserable existence that must be. This ignores the fact that people are motivated by different things. If you're someone who thrives on the intrinsic 'do this for the love and joy of it' motivation then you should absolutely just write code for the fun of it. But not everyone is like that. Some people need an extrinsic motivator to drive them to do things - that's usually money, or praise, or a punishment for…

While it's not wrong to be extrinsically motivated (it's not morally wrong, or a value judgment), it's definitely worse and more fickle (it will produce worse results in most cases). Intrinsic motivation is much more likely to lead to long-term growth even in the face of adversity and in general be more resistant to changing circumstances.

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#130

Post by Izkata »

pc86 wrote: post #125
sethammons wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What other jobs have you had? I have been a photo lab assistant, a sign maker apprentice, a graphic designer, an insurance agent, a financial advisor, a construction worker and manual laborer, an inner-city math teacher, a software developer turned manager turn developer, now at the staff level. Software is the most cush job I have had. More money for less work. Better perks. Less stress overall. Constantly learning,…

100% - my friends who have only ever written code think it's a "hard" job in the objective sense. That among all possible jobs, it is on the difficult side of the spectrum. I've been an EMT, a line cook, a dishwasher, a waiter, sold insurance, and worked on political campaigns. The easiest of all those is 10x harder than the hardest day of writing code. It's frustrating at times, sure. There's office politics, sure.…

I don't have much experience in jobs like those, but a family member who jumped between whole different professions for years does. He always got bored of them because, at least according to him, all of them had one failing: you learn everything you need in a couple of months or so, then it's pretty much just getting better at doing those things repeatedly.

Eventually he tried out programming and found there's no real end to the amount of things to learn. It was the only job he found that he wouldn't get bored on. He only eventually left because of bad bosses.

I think that might be the factor that makes it hard vs easy compared to others - that for a lot of people, continual learning (which they thought they'd left behind when they finished school) is why it might be harder than the other jobs ones you listed. Though I know I'd find those ones harder for other different reasons.

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