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East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

maxhertzberg.co.uk

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Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#131

Post by [deleted] »

n4r9 wrote: post #116
roenxi wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't the part of the argument that needs a source - pretty much everyone who is anyone in the public sphere seems to have death threats made against them and threats of extreme violence are actually pretty common at protests. Guillotines at protests are a reasonably common fixture for example [0]. That is the reason the standard needs to be someone actually doing something before the police get involved - peopl…

Maybe so, but it's still important to callenge okeuro49's claims. Extremist takes like that give off an air of believability despite being unsubstantiated. Relying solely on the common sense of the readership leads to situations where extremist views simply drown out the rest. It should not be seen as acceptable to present a wilfully distorted view of the facts.

[deleted]

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#132

Post by rdtsc »

anovikov wrote: post #6

Time and again we see how half-assed dictatorships don't work. Soviet Union and the Eastern Block failed because they tried to be nice. By doing so, they achieved the worst result possible: cynical, profoundly disillusioned society and an economic failure on top of that. They should've either folded when they realised that "classless and stateless" Communism was never going to work - which is, by the late 1970s at th…

> which is, by the late 1970s at the latest, or practiced pure Stalinism where everyone who wavered, got purged in an instant and thus generations kept being genetically filtered for obedience.

That’s a good point. The system worked so “well” before, during and a bit after WWII was because of the absolute terror and demand for obedience. With the willingness to kill, enslave, starve and terrorize people by the millions, one can achieve “great” economic results and military victories.

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#133

Post by [deleted] »

roenxi wrote: post #126
n4r9 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe so, but it's still important to callenge okeuro49's claims. Extremist takes like that give off an air of believability despite being unsubstantiated. Relying solely on the common sense of the readership leads to situations where extremist views simply drown out the rest. It should not be seen as acceptable to present a wilfully distorted view of the facts.

JK Rowling is famous, wealthy, a public figure and female. I guarantee you she has received death threats and the police have shrugged it off as not a credible problem. Whether they are public or not is more of an academic detail, but given the level of hostility aimed at her it is a pretty safe bet that someone has somewhere whether or not it was reported on the internet. If someone wants to die on the hill of every…

[deleted]

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#134

Post by tonyedgecombe »

chgs wrote: post #76
okeuro49 wrote: post #25

In the UK there is "social media intelligence", where AI systems scan the firehose of messages as they appear. [1] So people have been arrested for posting something online, even if nobody appears to have seen it, and they delete it shortly after. The policing is selective, depending on political view. For example, there were recently people with placards in London calling for the death of JK Rowling, which is de fac…

If you think an enhanced dbs check can affect your job wait to see what posting on social media will do.

I must admit I'm struggling to see the problem. If someone is hostile or prejudiced against people of a certain race, sexual orientation or disability then they should be excluded from jobs working with those people.

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#135

Post by n4r9 »

roenxi wrote: post #130
foldr wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original claim was that people were carrying placards at a recent protest in London calling for the death of JK Rowling. It’s not obvious that this has in fact happened, and it’s reasonable to ask for evidence of it.

Let me google that for you: https://celebrity.nine.com.au/latest/jk-rowling-slams-transg... I'm just saying, I didn't even check before this comment. And who knew? bunch of death threats targeting Rowling with activists trying to make sure everyone can find her in meatspace in case the threat makes her quieten down. "Did she receive death threats" is really not the part of this to try and question. And if you want to…

> if you want to make a point about did someone do it while at a protest

You make it sound pedantic. When drawing a parallel with the case of Lucy Connolly, the point is whether the behaviour incites hatred or violence.

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#136

Post by tpm »

anovikov wrote: post #33
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you using Socialism and Communism interchangeably? Communism goes further than Socialism (or Socialism doesn't go as far as Communism), Communism is more extreme, cold and hard and not at all blurry-edged, according to my understanding anyway. All instances of -isms eventually fall to the unrelenting winds of human nature. Not necessarily due to the ideals within the -ism itself.

Well, Communism was seen by countries we call "Communist" (GDR, Soviet Union, Red China in Mao era, and the like), as something potentially possible in some distant future, it was their endgame (some claim, only notionally so, with no actual plan of getting there, but it doesn't matter really). What they had in reality, they called "Socialism". Socialism is the "form of industrialised society where private ownership…

Socialism is defined by social ownership of the means of production. But in those countries, the society did not really have a say in managing the means of production, everything was in the hands of the 'avantgarde party' which inevitably led to centralization of power in the hands of a small clique.

Total socialism is of course unworkable anyway, but this was no socialism.

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#137

Post by EnPissant »

foldr wrote: post #127
EnPissant wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an example of police ignoring death threats. It references Harry Potter, and JK Rowling is the most common target of the "TERF" epithet. In any case, it supports the claim that the UK police selectively enforce speech laws.

The original post said that people had placards “calling for the death of JK Rowling”. It may be that the poster’s overall point does not rely on this specific factual claim. But don’t try to muddy the waters around this: it’s a straightforward factual claim and people are right to ask if it can be sourced. So far it has not been.

If there was a protest where people had signs that said “death to ” while screaming “fuck ”, and calls were made to defecate on that person’s art, would you say death threats were made about that person? Please take a moment to substitute various groups and people.

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#138

Post by rdtsc »

vincnetas wrote: post #47
anovikov wrote: post #6

Time and again we see how half-assed dictatorships don't work. Soviet Union and the Eastern Block failed because they tried to be nice. By doing so, they achieved the worst result possible: cynical, profoundly disillusioned society and an economic failure on top of that. They should've either folded when they realised that "classless and stateless" Communism was never going to work - which is, by the late 1970s at th…

Socialism is not Communism.

Communism was always the goal if we’re talking about those countries. We were “building communism” and socialism was just a temporary pit stop on the way.

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#139

Post by input_sh »

EnPissant wrote: post #119
input_sh wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't seen a single example of someone calling for death of JK Rowling specifically in any of those? The only references to her I see is a sign saying "go shit on a pile of Harry Potter books" and people chanting "fuck JK Rowling".

It's an example of police ignoring death threats. It references Harry Potter, and JK Rowling is the most common target of the "TERF" epithet. In any case, it supports the claim that the UK police selectively enforce speech laws.

Ah so nobody called for the death of JK Rowling, but terfs in general, which she happens to be? A death threat by nonintrinsic affiliation if you will? Seems pretty stupid if you ask me.

Perhaps she could not make it her whole identity so that when people say "death to this specific type of bigotry", random people on the internet don't immediately make the logical leap to think people wish for her death specifically?

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#140

Post by ZoomZoomZoom »

sien wrote: post #117
ReptileMan wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The communism collapsed because it was no longer possible to keep the knowledge of the 80s American supermarket hidden from them. That's it. If the communist regime provided what CCP does now - there would be absolutely no collapse.

And yet the CCP won't allow any elections. If the CCP did, how many of them would get elected ?

You know, USSR had elections, and people actually went and voted.
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