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Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

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Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#121

Post by hayst4ck »

riehwvfbk wrote: post #119
hayst4ck wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about that. I feel like if big tech moved away from IQ test like questions like the MS/FB of old then there was a reason.

And that reason was legal precedent: it's illegal to administer an IQ test as a condition of employment. So they administer a disguised IQ test in the form of Leetcode questions instead.

Huh? They used to ask brain teaser like questions, not anything that I would consider to actually be an IQ test or really even all that close to one in a legal way.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#122

Post by fakeBeerDrinker »

qwe----3 wrote: post #94
WorkerBee28474 wrote: post #12

There's a story that goes: A man was tasked with hiring an employee. He got hundreds of resumes. His friend looks at the stack and asks him "how are you going to decide among all those?" The man grabs half the stack, throws it in the garbage and says "Simple, I don't hire unlucky people". Degrees matter when employers don't have the time and/or ability to make a reasonable decision for every candidate. They need ways…

WGU course content is a complete joke- I would look negatively on that if I saw it

I was a faculty member there for a few years and I completely agree.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#123

Post by thorin »

hayst4ck wrote: post #24

As someone who has interviewed candidates for a FANG company in the distant past I can't say that degrees matter, but I can say that people I interviewed with degrees generally did better. There's a hidden bias in that this is only people who got through recruiters and recruiters are their own filter. Strong referrals usually guaranteed a phone screens. I think previous experience at a major competitor in the same ti…

As below, Physics and Maths degrees tend to have high entry requirements, large amounts of hands on (classroom or labs) hours, lots of highly focussed students. I observed this while studying Electronic Engineering, which I would say is similar but more practical and with lower entrance requirements. I'm not sure where computer science would fit into this as it's a newer discipline with less stringent core requirements. Other IT courses may be less rigorous and include people that are less focussed on their education relatively.

As above I would say that the physics students I know are often the ones going furthest in their careers either in research, computing (know a few at google), consulting e.g. PWC etc

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#124

Post by thorin »

o1o1o1 wrote: post #48

From my experience when I lived in Europe, the following is important to get a job in IT: - Degree, a general one is good, a specific one related to the job is better (especially in the German-speaking area, I don't know about the others) - Experience, especially in well-known big companies They used a trick there to reduce the leverage of employees in IT and created the myth of a "shortage of skilled workers" by rep…

I'm not sure getting out of Europe would help that. Where would you suggest, maybe Canada, Australia, New Zealand but the situation will continue to be volatile I think. I don't think going to US is ideal at the current time for Europeans. Running a business is probably the best option if you can do something in demand. A different career is probably only realistic if you're very young as the only things I could suggest that would be a lot better (financially) might be by training as a professional Accountant, Lawyer or Doctor (and all of these might also be threatened by AI.

This is a UK perspective not Europe, but there are a lot of parallels (until recently) and I know Europe pretty well.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#125

Post by thorin »

hayst4ck wrote: post #51
o1o1o1 wrote: post #48

From my experience when I lived in Europe, the following is important to get a job in IT: - Degree, a general one is good, a specific one related to the job is better (especially in the German-speaking area, I don't know about the others) - Experience, especially in well-known big companies They used a trick there to reduce the leverage of employees in IT and created the myth of a "shortage of skilled workers" by rep…

They also said shortage of skilled workers in the US. It's kind of upsetting because it's supposed to be the nature of free markets that demand increases price in order to better allocate labor resources, that means wages should be going up. So the message shouldn't be there's a shortage, the message should be that it's in high demand and that should be matched by increased starting salaries. When anyone said "shorta…

Shortage of workers is an excuse to bring in offshoring or short term visas / save money. I would prefer strategic longer term permanent immigration of quality candidates rather than moving the skills and knowledge overseas.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#126

Post by RamblingCTO »

I'll say yes. I am the only one in the company that has a degree (MSc compsci). I know stuff the others never heard of. Your exposure to obscure things in uni are really worth the time for deeper topics. I focused on machine learning and had classes like operations research, non-linear optimization or complexity theory & approximation algorithms and I kid you not, I could make use of these things quite a lot to find efficient issues for a harder problem.

If the course is just software engineering, don't bother imho. If it's compsci, do it. Do the hard stuff. You'll have an edge the others don't.

For context: I studied in Germany at a proper Uni and focused more and had quite the mathematical and theoretical curriculum. Not sure what the international situation is.

Also, yes, a paper helps. You have exposure to a variety of topics on a deeper level. That can come in handy!

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#127

Post by Sammi »

platevoltage wrote: post #21
WorkerBee28474 wrote: post #12

There's a story that goes: A man was tasked with hiring an employee. He got hundreds of resumes. His friend looks at the stack and asks him "how are you going to decide among all those?" The man grabs half the stack, throws it in the garbage and says "Simple, I don't hire unlucky people". Degrees matter when employers don't have the time and/or ability to make a reasonable decision for every candidate. They need ways…

Most relevant response yet. Thank you. This is exactly the category that I'm in. A couple of years ago I applied to a large company, with a referral. 0-2 years experience and a non-specific bachelor's required. I got my rejection in 15 minutes, after business hours. My resume didn't even see human eyes. Did I mention I had a referral?

That sounds hard. I got my bsc and msc in cs in 2015 exactly because I was afraid of this.

I know maybe a couple of guys who've had successful careers in cs despite having no degree. Those guys are especially talented and industrious. Real rock stars. I'm an average slob in comparison and I feel lucky to have my papers, as I have a decent track record of getting interviews. Small local companies seem to respond the best to my resume. Big places and remote jobs seem to have a much higher bar to clear.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#128

Post by turtleyacht »

Is a degree necessary for applying to random job postings? Yes.

> lifestyle

Starting a family at one point may factor into this; you'll be happier having something stable thanks to the degree that helped place you.

You can always self-study off .edu syllabi, books, and all that. Not always at the most convenient times, but the knowledge is out there.

Make sure the degree is from a reputable school. It's possibly the most important money spent.

Online bachelor's for computer science, though. I don't know if online is best there. Experience will bolster that for sure. Just don't know how ruthless the automated filters are.

It's less risk to find out at $15k than $150k, at least.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#129

Post by Sammi »

RamblingCTO wrote: post #126

I'll say yes. I am the only one in the company that has a degree (MSc compsci). I know stuff the others never heard of. Your exposure to obscure things in uni are really worth the time for deeper topics. I focused on machine learning and had classes like operations research, non-linear optimization or complexity theory & approximation algorithms and I kid you not, I could make use of these things quite a lot to find…

Skip the easy stuff and spend your energy on the hard stuff is excellent advice for anyone doing a cs degree. The easy stuff you can google. The hard stuff is what will mold your mind into a sharp tool and you will never get the same chance to spend your time on it as you do in uni.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#130

Post by osigurdson »

platevoltage wrote: post #22
dcreater wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes in this world of AI in everything, hiring tooling that is dog shit is the reason someone should go to college? I'm not commentating in where you're right or wrong, just want to point out what an utterly horrid reality.

I mean, we live in a day and age where an entry level administrative job requires a degree. Gotta make sure to keep us trashy blue collar guys in our place.

Except that trades probably make more money.
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