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East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

maxhertzberg.co.uk

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Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#91

Post by ttoinou »

anal_reactor wrote: post #37
lb1lf wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As for your last point, Solzhenitzyn said something memorable about that - 'We know that they are lying, they know that they are lying, they even know that we know they are lying, we also know that they know we know they are lying too, they of course know that we certainly know they know we know they are lying too as well, but they are still lying. In our country, the lie has become not just moral category, but the p…

I love it how Americans point to such quotes without realizing that this is how most corporate jobs function.

A thousand big companies is still better than one gigantic state company. I’d prefer a million small companies though

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#92

Post by [deleted] »

zwaps wrote: post #88
sixhobbits wrote: post #54

How does one reconcile the idea that the Stasi disappeared political opponents regularly but also engaged in weird stuff like moving people's socks around. > The final stages entailed psychological and physical harassment: moving things around at home (one morning the alarm clock goes off at 5am instead of 7am, and the socks are in the wrong drawer, there’s no coffee left …); damage to bikes and vehicles (eg slashing…

The question you ask is really important, because it shows how devious the Stasi regime was and why it lasted half a century. Why would they do this? Why would they go through these lengths to destroy a person so entirely they wouldn't even need to disappear them? The Stasi knew that power is never that absolute. The GDR was built upon the idea that is was good, not evil (like the West). You can't be good and regular…

[deleted]

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#93

Post by roenxi »

bertylicious wrote: post #56
okeuro49 wrote: post #25

In the UK there is "social media intelligence", where AI systems scan the firehose of messages as they appear. [1] So people have been arrested for posting something online, even if nobody appears to have seen it, and they delete it shortly after. The policing is selective, depending on political view. For example, there were recently people with placards in London calling for the death of JK Rowling, which is de fac…

You forgot to add a source for your claim that protestors called for the death of Rowling.

That isn't the part of the argument that needs a source - pretty much everyone who is anyone in the public sphere seems to have death threats made against them and threats of extreme violence are actually pretty common at protests. Guillotines at protests are a reasonably common fixture for example [0]. That is the reason the standard needs to be someone actually doing something before the police get involved - people say all sorts of threatening things in political contexts. It's pretty scary but it is better to tolerate it and let people get their emotions out into the open. They generally don't mean it.

[X] has has been subject to death threats at a protest is a pretty safe blind claim. Particularly for politicians, public figures, rich people, identifiable races and political groupings. Some yobbo will write something stupid on a placard and wave it around sooner or later.

[0] I searched for "guillotines at political protests" as a sanity check and straight away saw a "decapitate TERFs" placard. https://news.sky.com/story/scottish-politicians-and-jk-rowli...

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#94

Post by dmos62 »

chgs wrote: post #83
dmos62 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian disinformation campaigns the past 20 years have been outrageously effective.

Only because of the invention of western platforms tuned by the brightest minds in the world to enable the maximum amount of brainwashing

That's not true. Old-school disinformation platforms like TV, bought political parties, etc., worked and still work fine for disinformation and division. If you're not familiar with the subject, you'd be surprised just how inventive these campaigns can be.

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#95

Post by walterbell »

chgs wrote: post #76
okeuro49 wrote: post #25

In the UK there is "social media intelligence", where AI systems scan the firehose of messages as they appear. [1] So people have been arrested for posting something online, even if nobody appears to have seen it, and they delete it shortly after. The policing is selective, depending on political view. For example, there were recently people with placards in London calling for the death of JK Rowling, which is de fac…

If you think an enhanced dbs check can affect your job wait to see what posting on social media will do.

Censoring of messengers can destroy early warning signals of systemic risks.

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#96

Post by vkou »

briandear wrote: post #61
flohofwoe wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That looked more like an attempt to overthrow a democractically elected government by a mob of primitive brutes than 'political protest' to me tbh.

If anyone was attempting to overthrow anything, they would have been well armed. Not strolling around as if on a guided tour. Nobody overthrows a government by carrying protest signs. And grandmas aren’t using hanging out on the “front lines” taking photos with their iPhone. The leftist rioters that attacked police stations and burned courthouses — that looked a lot more like an insurrection to me. https://youtu.be/Y…

1. Many of them were armed.

2. A mob of people doesn't need to be armed to be a deadly threat. In fact, just the prior year, someone - successfully - made the same argument for killing two unarmed people at a protest. The courts ruled in his favor.

3. Not a single person among those prosecuted has been acquitted by a jury. Only two were acquitted at bench trials. But I'm sure your opinion on this matters more than the findings of the courts... It's strange how juries of their peers kept voting to convict them.

> Not strolling around as if on a guided tour.

Is it common for guided tours where you come from to be trying to break through a doorway, on the other side of which is an armed policeman, warning them that they'll be shot if they come any closer? Or to attack policemen with flagpoles? Or to climb the walls of a building?

Or to smear human shit over the walls of someone's office? Steal documents from them?

What do you think Trump would order done to a mob of a thousand people climbing over the fences and breaking into the White House, in an effort to overthrow him? Think he'd be smiling and directing them to the gift shop?

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#97

Post by lb1lf »

anal_reactor wrote: post #37
lb1lf wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As for your last point, Solzhenitzyn said something memorable about that - 'We know that they are lying, they know that they are lying, they even know that we know they are lying, we also know that they know we know they are lying too, they of course know that we certainly know they know we know they are lying too as well, but they are still lying. In our country, the lie has become not just moral category, but the p…

I love it how Americans point to such quotes without realizing that this is how most corporate jobs function.

Any large, hierarchical organization is likely to end up resembling this, be it public or private.

By the way, this American is Norwegian and didn't even set foot on US territory until my early twenties... :)

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#98

Post by input_sh »

EnPissant wrote: post #87
bertylicious wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot to add a source for your claim that protestors called for the death of Rowling.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/04/22/trans-activists-... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14638683/Police-inv...

I haven't seen a single example of someone calling for death of JK Rowling specifically in any of those?

The only references to her I see is a sign saying "go shit on a pile of Harry Potter books" and people chanting "fuck JK Rowling".

Re: East German Stasi Tactics – Zersetzung (2021)

#100

Post by echelon_musk »

okeuro49 wrote: post #25

In the UK there is "social media intelligence", where AI systems scan the firehose of messages as they appear. [1] So people have been arrested for posting something online, even if nobody appears to have seen it, and they delete it shortly after. The policing is selective, depending on political view. For example, there were recently people with placards in London calling for the death of JK Rowling, which is de fac…

There was a CCC talk on the practices of the Stasi some years ago (I forget exactly which year).

What stayed with me from the talk was that they had shown recovered Stasi photos of a young man's home where he had a wall dedicated to American iconography.

The speaker stated that in the current era this would just be trivially collected from social media instead of needing to gain physical access to property.

Edit: It was 32C3 What Does Big Brother See While He Is Watching at appx the 40m mark.

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