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I just want to code (2023)

zachbellay.com

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Re: I just want to code (2023)

#51

Post by ankurdhama »

xnickb wrote: post #48
ankurdhama wrote: post #46

When you start coding and start having fun, please remember that the "fun" doesn't apply to coding as profession. The same goes for any other profession. Doing something for fun vs professionally are two different worlds.

Confidently wrong. Life is a bit more nuanced than that. Look at any popular open source project and tell me not a single contributor was having fun while writing it. I can give you examples of very high quality open source projects where I know for a fact that the person/team behind them were just having fun.

Let me clarify what I mean by for fun vs professionally. For fun means you make decisions based on "That feature would be fun to implement". Professionally means you make decision based on "That's what good for business". Based on these definitions most of the open source projects don't fall under "professionally" category.

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#52

Post by bitwize »

alganet wrote: post #42

Honestly, the text looks like it was written by someone who does not understand hobbyist programming. It's not fun. The activity is not an enjoyable act of entertainment. It's stressful, time consuming and miserable. The result is what matters. You did something. Learned something. For you, not because it was in some work planning. It provides catharsis. That sort of catharsis does not exist in some work related envi…

> Honestly, the text looks like it was written by someone who does not understand hobbyist programming.

I don't think that at all. I think he just has a different perspective on it than you do. Whilst your perspective is valid, some people actually do enjoy the work of coding, especially if they can do so in an environment where they can immediately check intermediate results and use those to shape their coding trajectory as they work, creating a tight OODA loop. (Hi, Lisp!)

> That's why "all your base belong to us" kind of contracts in which stuff made outside work COULD become property of the hiring company makes otherwise happy developers into depressive under-productive nightmares. Let them code the toy thing unharmed in their spare time, for fucks sake.

> Let it be the real thing. Stop this nonsense fairytale.

On this we can agree. I think that for programming to be fun it has to be something you want to see come into fruition, i.e., not any random thing someone else wants to see, done to their schedule by their rules. Good tech companies -- game studios in the 90s, Google in the early days, even Microsoft in the early days -- knew how to make the golden goose as comfortable as possible while slipping out the back with the eggs.

But in the late 90s, Jim McCarthy's "Beware of a guy in a room" became iron gospel among management types, who interpreted it as meaning that developers must be subjected to a panopticon in which what they are doing at all times is tracked and analyzed by the chain of command going up to the C level. Hence Scrum, SAFe, and all that malarkey, and we've forgotten how to "let 'em cook" as the kids say now.

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#53

Post by queueueue »

For me, this has somehow gotten to a point where I keep questioning myself if I’m actually doing something out of curiosity or because of the idea I could share something with other people or some other motive. So I’m not even sure what I’m curious about anymore, which might sound ridiculous.

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#54

Post by GolDDranks »

gmoque wrote: post #43

Coding is another tool, just the same way you buy a piece of furniture online you can also build it yourself, if you have the tools and skills. It's up to you how you want to use your resources (time and money). Coding is a tool to solve data problems, I've been doing it for close to two decades now and I still find it fulfilling and fun. Many years ago I used to think, I love my job that I would do my job for free .…

> Coding is another tool

Maybe to you. For some of us, it's also a form of self-expression, a hobby or a lifestyle.

In my experience coding for money and coding for fun is a very different experience. I know my worth, but I am also free to do whatever I want out of my working hours.

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#56

Post by ArcHound »

queueueue wrote: post #53

For me, this has somehow gotten to a point where I keep questioning myself if I’m actually doing something out of curiosity or because of the idea I could share something with other people or some other motive. So I’m not even sure what I’m curious about anymore, which might sound ridiculous.

Hey, don't worry. In my book, if you do something because you want to share it, then you're still interested in it enough (or curious about if you want). You just like to share, and that's okay.

It's also a good filter for topics. Naturally, the topics of interest of others seem more valuable.

I am doing a similar thing on my blog. Generally, each topic must pass the test of: is this useful to at least some? And being commited to write means I can clarify and organize my thoughts.

So nothing to worry about, keep on experimenting and sharing.

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#58

Post by Thorrez »

>In a perfect world, I could listen to the angel and solely get by having fun and working on things I enjoy. But if I didn't listen to the devil from time to time, I wouldn't stay up to date with the latest technologies, and as a result I wouldn't be able to pay my bills.

Why do you need to listen to the devil to stay up to date with the latest technologies? You don't need to work on something monetizable to stay up on the latest technologies. You can work on something for fun and incorporate some of the latest technologies to learn about them at the same time.

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#59

Post by alkonaut »

Do many people hobby code with that entrepreneur mindset thing? Or sit down to play guitar thinking they want to make a hit and feeling bad if they just noodle some cover songs? What a miserable existence that must be. How do you get that way? Should we blame LinkedIn or what is it?

Re: I just want to code (2023)

#60

Post by alganet »

bitwize wrote: post #52
alganet wrote: post #42

Honestly, the text looks like it was written by someone who does not understand hobbyist programming. It's not fun. The activity is not an enjoyable act of entertainment. It's stressful, time consuming and miserable. The result is what matters. You did something. Learned something. For you, not because it was in some work planning. It provides catharsis. That sort of catharsis does not exist in some work related envi…

> Honestly, the text looks like it was written by someone who does not understand hobbyist programming. I don't think that at all. I think he just has a different perspective on it than you do. Whilst your perspective is valid, some people actually do enjoy the work of coding, especially if they can do so in an environment where they can immediately check intermediate results and use those to shape their coding traje…

Sorry, still sounds like a fairy tale.

I was fine doing some hours of planned teamwork. As long as I had some time to work on things I want. Spare non paid time.

For those things I want to program on that spare time, I don't want anyone snooping around to collect anything. I realize I don't want anyone encouraging, questioning, giving advice, talking about it.

The problem is much deeper. As I mentioned, this "code for fun" people had a prominent role in my burning out. They act as catharsis blockers as much as scrum people.

It makes no sense to try anything anymore. There could be a con man happy supporter just around the corner waiting to "collect the egg for free". I will rather let them starve.

Maybe this is exactly what the profession needs. A mass strike of some sort. Not for higher pay, but for better work conditions. It probably won't happen in my time.

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