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The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

theguardian.com

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Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#31

Post by ViscountPenguin »

kiba wrote: post #16
xvector wrote: post #10

I genuinely think death will be conquered, for all practical purposes, within this century. In our vast 300 thousand year history, we are likely in the last century of mortal humans, and in the last millennium of biological ones. Future generations will wonder at our coping mechanisms for something so tragic and horrifying as death, and wonder why we didn't try harder, earlier. Why isn't the longevity problem our #1…

Death from aging maybe. But as we saw, the next most dangerous things are each other and the systems that push toward people to death. Psychological health and well being are going to be key to resolving the problem of peaceful coexistence between humans.

Funny that we've gotten to the point where we can imagine an end to aging but not war.

Me and my partner always lement that we didn't evolve from capybaras instead.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#32

Post by fsociety »

xvector wrote: post #10

I genuinely think death will be conquered, for all practical purposes, within this century. In our vast 300 thousand year history, we are likely in the last century of mortal humans, and in the last millennium of biological ones. Future generations will wonder at our coping mechanisms for something so tragic and horrifying as death, and wonder why we didn't try harder, earlier. Why isn't the longevity problem our #1…

Mortality is not meant to be cured. Quality of life on the other hand..

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#33

Post by ViscountPenguin »

xvector wrote: post #21
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Future generations will wonder at our coping mechanisms for something so tragic and horrifying as death We’re on a path to curing aging. We have no clue how to cure death .

If you can cure aging, death itself becomes an engineering problem. Curing aging gives you the time you need to figure out gradual replacement, uploading (transfers, not copies), distributing consciousness across multiple fault-tolerant nodes in orbit or beyond, etc. Then you have cured death for all practical purposes. You will still be vulnerable to certain cosmic catastrophes (which you can plan around) and the he…

I have a very strong metaphysical prior against consciousness uploads being possible, but I hope to live in a universe structured in the right way to make me wrong.

It's not the difference in substrate that makes me doubt it's possible (I'm a very strong believer in panpsychism), but I doubt the transfer could ever be "continuous" in a way that my monkey brain was satisfied with.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#34

Post by ViscountPenguin »

fsociety wrote: post #32
xvector wrote: post #10

I genuinely think death will be conquered, for all practical purposes, within this century. In our vast 300 thousand year history, we are likely in the last century of mortal humans, and in the last millennium of biological ones. Future generations will wonder at our coping mechanisms for something so tragic and horrifying as death, and wonder why we didn't try harder, earlier. Why isn't the longevity problem our #1…

Mortality is not meant to be cured. Quality of life on the other hand..

I'm not sure any disease is "meant" to be cured. The fact that we can cure any diseases at all is a lucky accident.

Is this a religious conviction, or something else? I've heard that viewpoint a lot, but I've never heard anyone really explain where it comes from.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#35

Post by caseyy »

xvector wrote: post #25
hapticmonkey wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure various scifi authors have covered this topic to death (pun intended). But something about eternal life just feels so empty to me. And without changes to laws around euthanasia or suicide, it means being forced to stay alive forever, which is even more dystopian.

If life feels empty to you, I'm sorry to hear that. I hope it gets better soon. I feel the opposite - there is so much to do, and so little time. I am also happy and content just... existing. I don't think a social problem (that will be solved in time, and is already solved in some countries) is a reason to prevent this from happening. Social problems can be fixed, death is final. If euthanasia doesn't become legal b…

I think they meant eternal life much more in the “I have no mouth, and I must scream” sense.

Much has been said and written about the cruelty of immortality, since the myth of Sisyphus and probably before.

“The Mortal Immortal” is a story about prolonging lifespan but not healthspan, and also not emotional fulfilment in life — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mortal_Immortal. There are also TV shows (“Altered Carbon”, “Black Mirror” USS Callister and other episodes, “Twilight Zone”) and video games (“Nobody Wants to Die”) about it.

What your parent comment speaks about (the vanity of endless life) is particularly explored in Bernard Williams’s “The Makropulos Affair”. Endless life could mean no regard for quality of life and endless trivial pursuits.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#36

Post by JoshTriplett »

fsociety wrote: post #32
xvector wrote: post #10

I genuinely think death will be conquered, for all practical purposes, within this century. In our vast 300 thousand year history, we are likely in the last century of mortal humans, and in the last millennium of biological ones. Future generations will wonder at our coping mechanisms for something so tragic and horrifying as death, and wonder why we didn't try harder, earlier. Why isn't the longevity problem our #1…

Mortality is not meant to be cured. Quality of life on the other hand..

Smallpox was not meant to be cured anyway, but we did, and we're better for it. One of the defining qualities of humanity is the ability to better ourselves and overcome challenges.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#37

Post by JoshTriplett »

ViscountPenguin wrote: post #33
xvector wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can cure aging, death itself becomes an engineering problem. Curing aging gives you the time you need to figure out gradual replacement, uploading (transfers, not copies), distributing consciousness across multiple fault-tolerant nodes in orbit or beyond, etc. Then you have cured death for all practical purposes. You will still be vulnerable to certain cosmic catastrophes (which you can plan around) and the he…

I have a very strong metaphysical prior against consciousness uploads being possible, but I hope to live in a universe structured in the right way to make me wrong. It's not the difference in substrate that makes me doubt it's possible (I'm a very strong believer in panpsychism), but I doubt the transfer could ever be "continuous" in a way that my monkey brain was satisfied with.

The continuity flaw is a reasonable concern; I have it as well. (I don't want a copy of me to live on; I want to live on, myself.)

However, I do think it's entirely possible to solve, if we're already at the point where uploads are possible. It's harder than the alternative, but theoretically possible.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#38

Post by dachris »

kiba wrote: post #12
caseyy wrote: post #2

I don’t fear death, it is natural. I fear the suffering society will put me through when I’m old and ill, because they can’t cope with death. It’s good we are starting to develop dignified death laws. With the world population as it is, more people will die in the next decade than any other in history (even the plagues). Just looking at population graphs, 1B might die between 2050 and 2060. Much suffering can be avoi…

People are different. For example, my fear of death is in the from existential dread. It's an occasional thing. We should probably try harder to make people healthier in general. Much of the frailty of the elderly can be avoided with rigorous exercise. Maybe heart disease and dementia doesn't have to be your fate. I don't know how much longer people will be able to live if they optimize the hell out of their biomarke…

Unfortunately, in the end, bad health is likely to come get you anyways, you just have a higher likelihood of more and more healthy years.

A good friend of mine lived healthy, and still went hiking in their 90s. Yet, they had a stroke and are now bedridden.

If you just drop dead after having had a nice live or go through months or years of frailty and bad health, it's all in the cards.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#39

Post by TylerE »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14
caseyy wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think death being natural lends a lot of credence to the idea that it’s normal — as normal as life. And I’d say most people probably don’t fear death or non-existence itself, but rather the process of dying (suffering, stress, pain, shame, loss of agency, the grief inflicted on others, etc). In palliative care settings, where the process of dying is well-managed (physically, emotionally, spiritually), people don’t…

> now people are talking about how full of suffering life is when one doesn’t have whatever minimum of health they deem required to live, but are kept alive anyways This is more a social anxiety than reflection of reality. To the extent we’re prolonging suffering, it’s on the order of weeks, maybe months. Not years. Most people fear death. That’s natural. Some of us, due to being stupid, depressed or possibly enlight…

Quality of life is often gone long before there is any imminant chance of death. Chronic pain, loss of mobility, memory, visikn, and hearing deteriorating. Drugs and all their side effects.

Re: The hospital where staff treat fear of death as well as physical pain

#40

Post by LoganDark »

sandworm101 wrote: post #5
caseyy wrote: post #2

I don’t fear death, it is natural. I fear the suffering society will put me through when I’m old and ill, because they can’t cope with death. It’s good we are starting to develop dignified death laws. With the world population as it is, more people will die in the next decade than any other in history (even the plagues). Just looking at population graphs, 1B might die between 2050 and 2060. Much suffering can be avoi…

Being "natural" doesnt mean anything on relation to fear. Being eaten alive by lions is 100% natural too. Death is inevitable . So there is little to gain from being too afraid of it, but i would never suggest that anyone not fear the unknown. That fear is what has kept us alive and evolving. The fear is natural.

"If the tiger attempts to eat you, remember that you yourself are simply composed of atoms, and it is simply attempting to rearrange some of them for you."
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