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Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

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Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#81

Post by RainyDayTmrw »

platevoltage wrote: post #80
RainyDayTmrw wrote: post #77

It's complicated. I work at a "target" software company (competes with FAANG on prestige, but not literally FAANG). I interview candidates for senior+ roles, approximately one per week. By the time a candidate gets to me, I read their resume only for icebreakers/small-talk, and I couldn't care less what their resume says otherwise. But, I also happen to know that our internal recruiters, who are the first line of scr…

Sounds like the lesson here is to bypass the recruiter huh?

If you have the opportunity, getting your resume directly into the hands of a hiring manager is the biggest positive boost, bar none. But I recognize that having that option available or not is a matter of happenstance, on some big or small scale in one's life, more than anything else.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#82

Post by platevoltage »

YZF wrote: post #79
platevoltage wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for your response. I'm not really interested in specific companies. I'm really NOT interested in FAANG type companies. I have however seen many listings where I was like "this fits my knowledge and interests perfectly other than the degree requirement" - While I'm interested in the paper, I absolutely love learning everything I can about computers. I'm super neurodivergent, and have trouble learning things…

I don't regret getting a degree fwiw. My degree was 100% focused on math and comp.sci. (not in North America where they force you to take other subjects). If you have 20 years of experience I wonder if there are options for you to have that recognized towards a degree or even to get accepted into a Masters program (where presumably you'd have to make up some required courses but still).

I definitely don't have 20 years of experience. I did learn some HTML when I was 14 and made a geocities page though. It had animated GIFs and everything. I even made some stuff with Macromedia Flash ;).

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#83

Post by tibbar »

RainyDayTmrw wrote: post #73
tibbar wrote: post #50

> Is this a bad idea? Is this a good idea? Is this necessary if I want to be employable in the future? I wish anyone could really tell you. I mean, I sure don't know, and I've been a hiring manager in SF for years. I've done countless interviews, read countless resumes, all that. I can tell you what I would do if I were trying to bootstrap my way into the industry, though: 1. Do something difficult and unusual in tec…

That seems a lot like "draw the rest of the owl"[1] unfortunately. How will an otherwise relative newcomer know what would be considered challenging, how to go about making it happening, and that they can make it happen? [1]: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/how-to-draw-an-owl

If I were in this situation, and the goal is to draw an owl, and I can spend a year on it, then I'm going to spend an hour tonight looking at owls and maybe doodling a bit. I'm not going to worry about getting the owl perfect right away. Maybe next week I'll get super into owl feet, and the week after into learning good drawing posture. At some point I'll definitely be attending some meetup of nature-drawing enthusiasts.

I'm going to combine a general direction with a lot of time and horsepower and exploration and I will end up with a great owl drawing at the end. The odds are that I end up drawing the owl after only a few weeks because it's not as hard as I thought, but I discover some other really cool goals with a better payoff by then.

There's a lot of alpha in spending an unreasonable amount of time on interesting goals.

To answer your questions directly:

> How will an otherwise relative newcomer know what would be considered challenging

Just pick something that sounds challenging to you! You will learn a lot about what the scene considers challenging/interesting as you go. You can always update the goal.

> how to go about making it happening

Research. Start with stupid questions about the parts that are initially apparent. Keep a list of things that you don't know how to even begin to tackle, and over time, deep dive into items on the list. You will find that the resources/tricks/approaches you have grows as you go.

> and that they can make it happen?

You just have to really, really believe in yourself and in what you're trying to do. If you keep your health, that is all you really need.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#84

Post by platevoltage »

RainyDayTmrw wrote: post #81
platevoltage wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the lesson here is to bypass the recruiter huh?

If you have the opportunity, getting your resume directly into the hands of a hiring manager is the biggest positive boost, bar none. But I recognize that having that option available or not is a matter of happenstance, on some big or small scale in one's life, more than anything else.

I am in the somewhat unique position where I can take those opportunities as they come as I'm earning money and staying afloat. I could stand to do more networking though.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#85

Post by brightball »

hayst4ck wrote: post #24

As someone who has interviewed candidates for a FANG company in the distant past I can't say that degrees matter, but I can say that people I interviewed with degrees generally did better. There's a hidden bias in that this is only people who got through recruiters and recruiters are their own filter. Strong referrals usually guaranteed a phone screens. I think previous experience at a major competitor in the same ti…

> Many of the best co-workers that I remember had physics degrees. In fact, it was so pronounced I personally consider a physics degree to be a top tier signal of programming ability, but that's my own personal prejudice.

I’ve also found this to be true. And math degrees.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#86

Post by RainyDayTmrw »

WorkerBee28474 wrote: post #12

There's a story that goes: A man was tasked with hiring an employee. He got hundreds of resumes. His friend looks at the stack and asks him "how are you going to decide among all those?" The man grabs half the stack, throws it in the garbage and says "Simple, I don't hire unlucky people". Degrees matter when employers don't have the time and/or ability to make a reasonable decision for every candidate. They need ways…

Georgia Tech's Online Master of Science in Computer Science (GA Tech OMSCS) is really good about letting you go as fast or as slow as you want. If you are sufficiently motivated (and life circumstances permitting, granted), it's very doable as a nights and weekends type of thing.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#87

Post by Agentlien »

somenameforme wrote: post #58
platevoltage wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes sense. Thank you for sharing your experience. I'm involved in several projects, as well as being the sole developer for a SaaS that I co-own (I make exactly 0 dollars from it right now). I have to solve all kinds of difficult problems, which excites me to no end. I can see how I could have the same demoralizing experience you did. In my bootcamp, I got a D on my portfolio because I didn't follow directions. I'v…

Similar experience here but slightly different as I went to a top tier uni, but was also a decent coder before I started college. There was a lot of 'theory vs practice' snobbery where the former was emphasized above all, to the point of absurdity. Get ready to learn the secret knowledge of academia CS like that that functional languages are secretly the solution to everything - especially purely functional - no vari…

My experience is very similar but I will say that - as someone whose work is primarily in graphics and performance - that a lot of the math and theory has been really useful. The fawning over functional programming and formal proofs less so.

The biggest surprise when I got into the industry was how incredibly much necessary practical knowledge was not even hinted at in my education. Mainly related to actual tooling and processes required for large professional settings - not toy projects for five students doing something for a few weeks.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#88

Post by YZF »

platevoltage wrote: post #82
YZF wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't regret getting a degree fwiw. My degree was 100% focused on math and comp.sci. (not in North America where they force you to take other subjects). If you have 20 years of experience I wonder if there are options for you to have that recognized towards a degree or even to get accepted into a Masters program (where presumably you'd have to make up some required courses but still).

I definitely don't have 20 years of experience. I did learn some HTML when I was 14 and made a geocities page though. It had animated GIFs and everything. I even made some stuff with Macromedia Flash ;).

I see. I assumed. It's hard to give generic advice since everyone's situation is unique. One thing is you can try just taking a few courses. You could consider studying something completely different. Or you can use the vast resources online to learn something new (e.g. Coursera?) and see what you think.

AI could be changing a lot of what we do as well.

I wouldn't spend time and money on something that's iffy. A real science bachelors degree is at least 3 years of fairly hard work. You could do that part-time over a longer period. That's not going to necessarily make you a great programmer - a lot of that is just doing it and learning. Which you don't need a degree or a bootcamp for. But it's going to be somewhat limiting not to understand the "science" part, how much depends on the specific role.

I work with someone who got a diploma, got hired, is doing great, and also going back to school to finish his degree part-time. I also studied part remote part on site to finish the courses I needed while having a full time job and other responsibilities. It's tough but doable.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#89

Post by satisfice »

Degrees don’t matter in most cases. Distinguish yourself by doing the work and displaying it and talking about it.

Everybody is having a hard time finding a job. If you get a degree, you will do all that work and simply be competing with 100,000 other people who also have degrees and also want work.

I compete with them without institutional education. Although at my stage of career no one ever asks about my education.

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