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Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

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Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#61

Post by tibbar »

platevoltage wrote: post #54
tibbar wrote: post #50

> Is this a bad idea? Is this a good idea? Is this necessary if I want to be employable in the future? I wish anyone could really tell you. I mean, I sure don't know, and I've been a hiring manager in SF for years. I've done countless interviews, read countless resumes, all that. I can tell you what I would do if I were trying to bootstrap my way into the industry, though: 1. Do something difficult and unusual in tec…

Thank you. I'm not really looking for a job at the moment, I'm just having what is maybe an irrational fear of being made obsolete. I've hit the point of no return. I've been out of the automotive game for a while now, and I think I might rather die than go back to that. Maybe I've done too much doomscrolling on Linked In.

As with most things in life, small iterative improvements are usually the most reliable path. You've already got contract work, so try to get more of that, maybe you can get a fulltime job with one of those clients, now you have a resume item, etc. It's the same for most everyone - we get a little experience, a bit of a resume, and one day we get another step on the ladder, and one day another.

Actually doing a whole degree program is just so much freakin' work and money for a single line on your resume that I can think of a lot of equally time consuming things that would have a better payoff. I've done night classes too and - whew. Never again.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#62

Post by [deleted] »

somenameforme wrote: post #58
platevoltage wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes sense. Thank you for sharing your experience. I'm involved in several projects, as well as being the sole developer for a SaaS that I co-own (I make exactly 0 dollars from it right now). I have to solve all kinds of difficult problems, which excites me to no end. I can see how I could have the same demoralizing experience you did. In my bootcamp, I got a D on my portfolio because I didn't follow directions. I'v…

Similar experience here but slightly different as I went to a top tier uni, but was also a decent coder before I started college. There was a lot of 'theory vs practice' snobbery where the former was emphasized above all, to the point of absurdity. Get ready to learn the secret knowledge of academia CS like that that functional languages are secretly the solution to everything - especially purely functional - no vari…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#63

Post by dinkumthinkum »

willismichael wrote: post #7
orionblastar wrote: post #2

I have a CS and Business Management degree. What got me hired was my knowledge and experience, and I worked with coworkers without degrees. You have to prove that you can do the job. Then again, I've seen $15/hr jobs that require a Master's in CS. That management is crazy.

I have a close relative who made more than that doing more or less entry level manual labor for the local city govt.

People make more than that babysitting or working at Chick-fil-a.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#64

Post by platevoltage »

3np wrote: post #28
platevoltage wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. no. My CS fundamentals could always use work, but I know enough to know how to improve them on my own if and when I need to. 2. yes. this could just be my cynicism talking though. I'm not looking at any unaccredited program. I already have one of those under my belt.

I think you may be undervaluing effort and payoff of CS fundamentals, as well as overestimating payoff of the paper from an online degree. (Caveat: If you'll be emigrating in the future a degree can make a difference for visas if recognized ) If you do it and actually apply yourself (as opposed to optimizing for points/effort) I guess you'll be on the up regardless of which (:

I wasn't undervaluing it. I was just answering the question. I've spent a lot of time on CS fundamentals. I can't say I've used a binary search tree in my every day work. If I anticipate this type of question in an interview, I'll need to go back and review. Thats all I meant.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#65

Post by platevoltage »

TZubiri wrote: post #45
candiddevmike wrote: post #4

As soon as you've gotten your first job, degrees cease to matter for the most part until you start pursuing non-technical tracks IMO. There are some jobs that have bachelor requirements due to some weird contractual or government need though.

The trick is you needed the degree to get that first job. It's like saying the first floor isn't very important once you build the second floor

bingo

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#66

Post by zdragnar »

platevoltage wrote: post #18
zdragnar wrote: post #5

I can't speak to whether an online degree is worthwhile. What I can say is that the more you fill out your resume with work experience, the less the degree will matter to non-FANG employers. I suppose it depends on the kind of programming that you do, but not having a CS degree hasn't held me back at all. By this point I've got over 16 years of experience I think, and I don't even bother listing much about my educati…

I guess I should have been more clear in my post. I don't have any degree.

Pretty sure leaving the education off of your resume entirely is fine. Don't lie if they ask, but as others have said, once you get experience under your belt, most employers tend to stop caring about it altogether. Even if it is listed as a requirement on the job posting, hiring managers care way more about competence than they do a fancy piece of paper.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#67

Post by platevoltage »

burner420042 wrote: post #44
burner420042 wrote: post #29

Having made this decision myself here is my direct experience over the last 6 months being an out of work tech worker like you, no degree at all, that also lives on the US West Coast. Most places require a comp sci degree regardless of how good you are. It's rude to say that but I've found this to be true. I've also now realized that someone with a comp sci degree saying you don't need one, well they don't know what…

In reading some of your responses to other posts I wanted to add that I'm answering the question realizing that you don't have a degree of any kind. Having a degree normalizes you to people with limited time or imagination - the upside is you spend far less time having to explain or prove your value. Getting a degree now is also a commitment to stop doing things the hard way. :-) A degree in something is a minimum, a…

I probably should have been more clear in my original post that I don't have a degree. Sometimes I forget that "a degree in something" is really the bare minimum for anyone to take you seriously. I specified a CS degree because what else would I do?

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#68

Post by platevoltage »

tibbar wrote: post #61
platevoltage wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I'm not really looking for a job at the moment, I'm just having what is maybe an irrational fear of being made obsolete. I've hit the point of no return. I've been out of the automotive game for a while now, and I think I might rather die than go back to that. Maybe I've done too much doomscrolling on Linked In.

As with most things in life, small iterative improvements are usually the most reliable path. You've already got contract work, so try to get more of that, maybe you can get a fulltime job with one of those clients, now you have a resume item, etc. It's the same for most everyone - we get a little experience, a bit of a resume, and one day we get another step on the ladder, and one day another. Actually doing a whole…

Yeah. So far the iterative approach has been working out. I haven't really tested the waters in a while.

I just wish that "single line" wasn't such a deal breaker.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#69

Post by platevoltage »

zdragnar wrote: post #66
platevoltage wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I should have been more clear in my post. I don't have any degree.

Pretty sure leaving the education off of your resume entirely is fine. Don't lie if they ask, but as others have said, once you get experience under your belt, most employers tend to stop caring about it altogether. Even if it is listed as a requirement on the job posting, hiring managers care way more about competence than they do a fancy piece of paper.

Yeah. This is what I've been told. The issue is that getting your resume into the hands of a hiring manager feels increasingly difficult.

Re: Ask HN: CS degrees, do they matter again?

#70

Post by tibbar »

platevoltage wrote: post #68
tibbar wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As with most things in life, small iterative improvements are usually the most reliable path. You've already got contract work, so try to get more of that, maybe you can get a fulltime job with one of those clients, now you have a resume item, etc. It's the same for most everyone - we get a little experience, a bit of a resume, and one day we get another step on the ladder, and one day another. Actually doing a whole…

Yeah. So far the iterative approach has been working out. I haven't really tested the waters in a while. I just wish that "single line" wasn't such a deal breaker.

It is indeed unfortunate, and for what it's worth I think you are not the person people are generally trying to filter out by requiring a degree, given your skills and track record. So you probably would benefit from meeting more people in the industry in person. It also sounds like you've made good choices so far in getting your new career started. I hope you get everything you're going for.
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