Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders • Hacker News Board

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#201

Post by vkou » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 2:38 AM UTC

mjevans wrote: post #168

vkou wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My argument is that tracking, inhibitors, etc should be too far for the other cases, I'm sure the judge is more qualified than you are to make this determination. But if you disagree, let me pose a simple question: In a situation when a judge would suspend someone's license. Why are you opposed to giving them this as an alternative? (If they refuse to comply with this, the judge would happily offer them the suspens…

Slippery slope. It'd be assigned in way more cases because they can, because the _perceived_ impact is lower to someone else. Because it can be handled like yet another tax on offenders, including the poor. Because the companies selling it to the government would continue to lobby to sell it more often for more classes of offense. Take the suspended license situation. At what point is the impact to society enough to…

This is... a regressive tax on... Reckless drivers who, after multiple convictions keep putting the lives on the public in deadly danger? Do people stumble into that kind of criminal history by accident, or something? How many times do they have to be hauled before a judge before they knock it off? Are these Jean Valjean crimes of necessity, or something?

Look, what those people need to do is never be allowed to drive ever again. This is a technological compromise in their favor.

You're valuing a few thousand dollars of their financial welfare above the welfare of the people around them? Why?

No, this device won't stop them from driving into a pedestrian, just like it won't stop them from robbing a convenience store at gunpoint or committing tax fraud. The point of censuring someone for reckless driving isn't to prevent every single other bad behavior they will ever commit in the future. The point of it is to stop them from doing more of it, to the extent possible, without being overly draconian.

And if you think that this light a consequence is inappropriate for those people, what consequences do you think are appropriate? Can any of them pass the no-slippery slope standard you're setting for it?

How is it that they are neatly fitting into your two buckets of 'These are good people who somehow keep doing this but this device is unfair and repressive to them' and 'If they can't physically speed, they'll literally start running people down instead and this will not reduce recidivism at all'? Partitioning people into those two perfect buckets stretches credulity.

Not to mention that similar devices (breathalizer ignition interlocks) dramatically reduce recidivism, compared to other, both more and less serious punishments. How is it that that technological solution manages to statistically mitigate (but not cure) a health and addiction and judgement issue, while this one can be dismissed out of hand?

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#202

Post by AnthonyMouse » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 2:39 AM UTC

AshleyGrant wrote: post #199

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or, more importantly... can you provide a reason why this hypothetical, extremely unusual edge case should take precedence over the 12,000 speeding deaths per year in our calculation? That one's easy. Because the 12,000 "speeding deaths" are caused by 300+ million people, so the probability that one is caused by any given person is extremely low. And even 12,000 is an overestimate because those statistics count eve…

> What happens if you've been drinking not expecting to go anywhere before you learn you need to evacuate immediately because of a wildfire? I have my own concerns about the technology in question, but frankly this is a terrible example. If you have already proven to make such terrible decisions that you have been court-ordered to have a breathalyzer installed in your car and then you choose to get drunk as a wildfir…

Wildfires move fast and "a wildfire is likely" is a condition that can persist for months on end in some places.

There are also people who are addicted to alcohol. "People with that medical condition should literally die in a fire" is not a great take.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#203

Post by AshleyGrant » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 2:39 AM UTC

fallingknife wrote: post #156

AyyEye wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes the assumptions that: A: The ticket was valid in the first place B: The Speeding was reckless I have a friend who got an entirely fabricated ticket claiming he was doing 80+ going uphill on an on-ramp in an early 90s toyota corolla with four people and four desktops + a couple of CRTs. We weren't going faster than ~35. Ticket said it was radar verified but he was sitting on his hood eating a sandwich. Othe…

I'm from Atlanta. On 285 the speed limit is 55. Traffic moves at 80.

Having driven extensively in nearly every city in this country, the drivers in Atlanta are absolutely the most dangerous. It is the only city I refuse to drive in, and I try to limit my physical presence in the Atlanta Metro (aside from transiting the airport) to reduce the risk of being in an accident.

I have seen a mid-90s Nissan pickup truck literally on two wheels it was weaving through traffic so recklessly on I-85.

LA, New York, Boston, Chicago, Miami, Seattle, Bay Area, Houston, Dallas, etc. They all have their bad drivers, but none of them seem to have this deeply ingrained culture of reckless driving quite like Atlanta.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#204

Post by FireBeyond » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 2:41 AM UTC

andrewflnr wrote: post #172

Dylan16807 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some emergency situation where a higher travel speed is a matter of life and death Can you describe such a situation? I can't think of anything other than completely unrealistic action movie scenarios.

Medical emergencies are not "unrealistic action movie scenarios". If my family member is bleeding and I'm driving them to the ER, I don't and shouldn't have to care about precise speed limits.

If your family member is bleeding to the point where this will make a notable difference you should be staying with them, applying direct pressure and a tourniquet, not letting them bleed out in the back of your car while you race to the ER.

I've driven ambulances for a living (as a critical care paramedic). It's not the speed that saves lives. If transport is a factor, it's Opticom that makes a difference (traffic light pre-emption).

To be blunt: in the space of nearly ten thousand patient transports -by ambulance-, fewer than 1%, far fewer than 1% would have a discernible outcome change due to "how fast can I drive to the ER".

Not to mention, you are not going to be a focused driver when your family member is bleeding in the back seat of your car.

And all of this matters very little, because if you've only ever had a couple of "regular" speeding fines, you're not going to have this device on your car stopping you from "saving a life".

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#205

Post by GuB-42 » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 2:41 AM UTC

There are cars that can go way over 100 mph, and they almost all speed controlled by software. High performance cars are often speed limited by software to about 150 mph. How is this legal? Cars with speed limits that high belong to the track, not public roads, with a possible exception for emergency vehicles.

There are some rare (emergency) situations where "superspeeding" might help, but I can think of many others where it may kill. It is not great for the environment either.

I think limiting speeds to, say, 100mph for every road legal car will be unpopular. People love their fast cars, especially the rich and powerful, and manufacturers love to sell them. But technically, it should be easy to implement, and may improve road safety.

I am only talking about the top speed, powerful cars will keep their high acceleration. There is also a good chance that people will modify their cars to raise the top speed, and it is fine outside of public roads, but could result in serious penalties if caught using such a modification on public roads.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#206

Post by YZF » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 2:44 AM UTC

analog31 wrote: post #164

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recall hearing about Japan putting speed limiters in all cars and using GPS to determine the road and therefore speed limit to set the limiter dynamically in vehicles. (Perhaps some details are wrong or confabulated; regardless, it’s a neat idea.) I’m in favor of such a system in theory; I’d be concerned about privacy issues but there’s no reason for such a system to require driver identification anyway.

My family rented a car in England last summer, and this was an optional feature of the car. I didn't want to try it out on my first time driving on the left, so I didn't turn it on. Moreover, the speed limits on the motorways were changing in real time. I observed very little speeding -- almost none.

They have a ton of speeding cameras which is probably why.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#207

Post by zdragnar » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 2:44 AM UTC

hammock wrote: post #194

zdragnar wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such a vehicle wouldn't be able to travel on a freeway at all [1], which means the market for them is very limited. Even in cities, people will want to hop on a freeway to cut across town more quickly. [1] Most states have rules around operating a minimum speed with the flow of traffic, so cars inhibiting the flow or otherwise driving significantly slower than the cars around them are considered to be a safety hazard…

Today. But, no reason why we couldn’t change the rules to let these vehicles travel in the right lane only. Just as trucks are restricted so on certain highways.

Technically, everyone is expected to drive in the right most lane unless they are passing or there is a left-hand exit coming up.

This would just force average speed drivers into the left lanes and slow traffic down overall, and contribute to more traffic jams as the uneven speeds cause ripple effects.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#208

Post by woah » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 2:47 AM UTC

cj wrote: post #11

analog31 wrote: post #4

An interesting thing is that I've observed a lot less speeding over the years, as more cars acquire active cruise control. Correlation or causation? Who knows. I don't think enforcement has changed.

Due to local law changes, my 50k population town has had 10 weed shops open up in the past 6 months. Previous to that, the closest store was 4 hours away in another state. No idea if it's just a coincidence, but people seem to be driving way slower on average compared to last year.

A drunk driver will blow through a stop sign, while a stoned driver will wait for it to turn green

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#209

Post by Scoundreller » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 2:49 AM UTC

owenversteeg wrote: post #165

827a wrote: post #148

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

I agree. What's next? Controlling where, and when we can drive? The groups lobbying for this bill already say that they want mandatory, automatic, remotely-controllable speed restrictions on everyone's car - they will publicly tell you as much - from there, any further erosion of our liberties is just a software update away. Do you really think that a government, in the height of an emergency, that can restrict where…

> The 1/3 of annual traffic deaths caused by speeding

I always question those numbers: which collisions/deaths would have still happened without speed being a factor? And was the speed even above the limit or e.g. "too fast for icy conditions" and limiters wouldn't have done anything.

Typically speed-related collisions require some other mistake/issue to occur, speed just exacerbates the consequences

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#210

Post by dzhiurgis » Mon, Apr 28, 2025, 2:50 AM UTC

lokar wrote: post #37

scottbez1 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory, yes. In practice typical insurance requirements are already far below realistic modern-day damages possible from vehicular collisions, and people still routinely drive without even that minimal insurance. Without better mechanisms to actually meaningfully enforce insurance requirements, changes to those requirements are unlikely to be effective. The elephant in the room in the US is that although driving i…

Yeah, required liability coverage needs to go way up.

Just put it in yearly registration fee, like most modern countries do.

The profits stay within the government, fees can be easily adjusted to inflation and is enforced onto everyone thus reducing the headache for drivers and cops.