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Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

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Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#171

Post by cowfarts »

fallingknife wrote: post #156
AyyEye wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes the assumptions that: A: The ticket was valid in the first place B: The Speeding was reckless I have a friend who got an entirely fabricated ticket claiming he was doing 80+ going uphill on an on-ramp in an early 90s toyota corolla with four people and four desktops + a couple of CRTs. We weren't going faster than ~35. Ticket said it was radar verified but he was sitting on his hood eating a sandwich. Othe…

I'm from Atlanta. On 285 the speed limit is 55. Traffic moves at 80.

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Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#172

Post by andrewflnr »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #169
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what happens if you sell the car. What happens if the thing thinks the speed limit on a 65 MPH highway is 30 MPH? Or you have some emergency situation where a higher travel speed is a matter of life and death? Machines should never enforce laws because they don't have the ability to know when doing so would be unreasonable.

> some emergency situation where a higher travel speed is a matter of life and death Can you describe such a situation? I can't think of anything other than completely unrealistic action movie scenarios.

Medical emergencies are not "unrealistic action movie scenarios". If my family member is bleeding and I'm driving them to the ER, I don't and shouldn't have to care about precise speed limits.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#173

Post by Esophagus4 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #130
rightbyte wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it would work as a breath alcohol ignition interlock device when reselling. I.e. you just remove it.

That's what happens if you sell the car. What happens if the thing thinks the speed limit on a 65 MPH highway is 30 MPH? Or you have some emergency situation where a higher travel speed is a matter of life and death? Machines should never enforce laws because they don't have the ability to know when doing so would be unreasonable.

> Or you have some emergency situation where a higher travel speed is a matter of life and death?

Can you provide such a scenario?

Or, more importantly... can you provide a reason why this hypothetical, extremely unusual edge case should take precedence over the 12,000 speeding deaths per year in our calculation?

For example, I'm willing to wager more people get hurt speeding TO the hospital while their wife is in labor than preventing any sort of injury due to out of hospital birth. Even EMTs know this implicitly: ground transport is one of the most dangerous parts of their job.[1]

Machines are absolutely capable of enforcing laws, and they do a pretty good job of it in many cases. Speed cameras reduce crashes and fatalities, and car breathalyzers reduce the incidences of drunk driving.[2][3][4]

Even still, humans (judges) review these cases individually and decide which offenders' cars to put breathalyzers / speed limiters on.

Also of note - presumably if you're a decent driver using your speeding card just this once to get your pregnant wife to the hospital, you wouldn't have repeated 100+ MPH speeding convictions on your record, so you wouldn't have a limited speed, anyway. In the US, these limiters are only installed for repeated offenses.

This affects the guy who has a history of reckless driving, the same way car breathalyzers affect the guy who has a history of drunk driving.

[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221414052...

[2] https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/pr2025/nyc-dot-speed-camer...

[3] https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/speed-cameras-reduce-injury...

[4] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7879393/

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#174

Post by AnthonyMouse »

brailsafe wrote: post #153
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what happens if you sell the car. What happens if the thing thinks the speed limit on a 65 MPH highway is 30 MPH? Or you have some emergency situation where a higher travel speed is a matter of life and death? Machines should never enforce laws because they don't have the ability to know when doing so would be unreasonable.

> What happens if the thing thinks the speed limit on a 65 MPH highway is 30 MPH? I'd presume the state would need to update its GIS record, in the meantime you'd put your hazard lights on and move over to the right lane. > Or you have some emergency situation where a higher travel speed is a matter of life and death? Suddenly while driving, or something that you'd need to use the car for in order to travel fast? In…

> I'd presume the state would need to update its GIS record, in the meantime you'd put your hazard lights on and move over to the right lane.

The problem isn't the GIS record, it's that the highway is directly adjacent to a mountain and the GPS isn't accurate enough there to distinguish between the highway and the lower speed roads near it, so they can't fix it. Or maybe they just don't care to because it's a bureaucracy. Also, the highway is the only road that goes over the bridge, so it's not a one-time problem because you can't avoid using it on a regular basis.

> Suddenly while driving, or something that you'd need to use the car for in order to travel fast?

Why isn't the issue. The hurricane comes and the phones are down and you need to get the kid to the hospital before they bleed out. You're the on-call service tech for something which is going to result in human tragedy if you don't get there first. You're not even involved but a firefighter had to commandeer your vehicle.

Stuff shouldn't be strictly enforcing rules in an emergency.

> These situations could be accounted for prior to repeatedly breaking speed laws.

How is the dying kid supposed to account for the only car in the area belonging to a stranger with one too many speeding tickets?

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#175

Post by crooked-v »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #169
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what happens if you sell the car. What happens if the thing thinks the speed limit on a 65 MPH highway is 30 MPH? Or you have some emergency situation where a higher travel speed is a matter of life and death? Machines should never enforce laws because they don't have the ability to know when doing so would be unreasonable.

> some emergency situation where a higher travel speed is a matter of life and death Can you describe such a situation? I can't think of anything other than completely unrealistic action movie scenarios.

California wildfire evacuations, maybe, in very specific edge cases. But even then I very much doubt it would matter much, given how actual videos out of those incidents show relatively low-speed caravans with limited visibility from smoke.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#177

Post by crooked-v »

andrewflnr wrote: post #172
Dylan16807 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some emergency situation where a higher travel speed is a matter of life and death Can you describe such a situation? I can't think of anything other than completely unrealistic action movie scenarios.

Medical emergencies are not "unrealistic action movie scenarios". If my family member is bleeding and I'm driving them to the ER, I don't and shouldn't have to care about precise speed limits.

If you're in that situation and you've already broken the speed limit so flagrantly multiple times that the courts have installed a speed limiter, that family member may well be safer waiting for the ambulance.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#178

Post by astura »

_bin_ wrote: post #82
bearcobra wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see parts of Virginia not feeling culturally like a lot of the rest of the south but I’m still intrigued by the use of yankee. Like is someone from Wyoming a yankee because they aren’t from the south or is it more cultural to you?

Nope, yankeedom as I see it is Virginia, Maryland, Delaware, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine. There is another, semi-derisive, use in which it means any non-southerner. But that is less common and context-dependent.

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Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#179

Post by hayst4ck »

blendo wrote: post #152

I’ve seen cars improve a lot over that last 10-20 years. Faster, smoother, quieter, and safer, they can cruise all day at 80-90 mph. Sadly, this is completely incompatible with 25 mph city speed limits. Thus, the need for engineering kludges like automotive speed limiters. I’d really like a new vehicle classification, perhaps along the lines of Medium Speed Electric Vehicles. Designed with a top speed of 40 to 45 mph…

This distinction has been made with engine capacity (number of CCs) for scooters or motorcycles in many places including in the US.

I think what you're most experiencing is a result of cars over 2 wheeled vehicles. Cities would be much better if the average American commuted around it with 2 wheeled vehicles, mass transit, or the occasional taxi for trips when traveling with larger items.

If you have not traveled around Asia, I recommend it. You start to see a lot of the sickness in American culture. The biggest is a culture that revolves around cars.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#180

Post by 827a »

owenversteeg wrote: post #165
827a wrote: post #148

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin

I agree. What's next? Controlling where, and when we can drive? The groups lobbying for this bill already say that they want mandatory, automatic, remotely-controllable speed restrictions on everyone's car - they will publicly tell you as much - from there, any further erosion of our liberties is just a software update away. Do you really think that a government, in the height of an emergency, that can restrict where…

The main thing I would call attention to is: There are other governments around the world who have similar technologies required on their cars, and who have distributed that technology without much negative impact to their people. I might, if I were a Japanese citizen, trust the Japanese government to handle a technology like this with the care and respect it deserves; but we are not Japan. Do you trust the current American government to do the same?

Those who supported these mass surveilience and control systems under, for example, Obama and Biden, may find themselves quiet when wondering whether they support them again under Trump. Yet, this is precisely, to the T, what our Founding Fathers had considered: that no government can be trusted to do things like this, or what the NSA does, or anything like it. Even if you approve of the regime today, your approval may quickly change, but the power you granted that previous regime does not.

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