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Not worried about AI taking our jobs; worried it won't take our current jobs

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11–19 of 19 posts

Re: Not worried about AI taking our jobs; worried it won't take our current jobs

#11
post #8

You don't seem to understand the how and why society works the way it does, and as a result you believe in some pretty blatantly false things about AI in general. Human organization that we see today occurs because of the exchange of economic activity. Some people have time they trade for in exchange for a store of value they can use to purchase things the need. Others pay people to produce things and then sell thing…

What are the false things that I believe in? Seems like you're making some pretty big assumptions on how I think of the world.

> I want us to plan, strategize, review, and set AI tools to auto. While they work, we're free to be human - thinking, creating, living. Agree, disagree?

It cannot be called assumption, when it comes directly from the horses mouth.

Plan and Do. You implicitly assume that you will survive the environment you intend to create, at its most basic.

Its not a big assumption to assume you are a rational and good person that intends to create an environment capable of raising and allowing children to survive, we wouldn't be having this discussion if I didn't make that assumption.

A big assumption would be your insane and delusional, but I didn't say that, did I? I wouldn't bother saying a thing if that were the case.

I pointed out the problems, and the important parts that should naturally occur with thought and a good education.

Minds much greater than yours (and mine) have attempted to tackle the underlying problems going all the way back to the turn of the last century (1900s). None of these have been solved, and the only thing learned has largely been that they likely can't be solved given the mathematical property of chaos. Mises wrote extensively on these subjects in the 30s.

Failing to think rationally based in external measure and failing to have a plan that is tempered by reality is a choice towards destruction/annihilation, once all indirection and contradictions have been resolved.

Re: Not worried about AI taking our jobs; worried it won't take our current jobs

#12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the false things that I believe in? Seems like you're making some pretty big assumptions on how I think of the world.

> I want us to plan, strategize, review, and set AI tools to auto. While they work, we're free to be human - thinking, creating, living. Agree, disagree? It cannot be called assumption, when it comes directly from the horses mouth. Plan and Do. You implicitly assume that you will survive the environment you intend to create, at its most basic. Its not a big assumption to assume you are a rational and good person that…

Once again you make an incorrect assumption and then build an argument against it. Good luck.

Re: Not worried about AI taking our jobs; worried it won't take our current jobs

#13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want us to plan, strategize, review, and set AI tools to auto. While they work, we're free to be human - thinking, creating, living. Agree, disagree? It cannot be called assumption, when it comes directly from the horses mouth. Plan and Do. You implicitly assume that you will survive the environment you intend to create, at its most basic. Its not a big assumption to assume you are a rational and good person that…

Once again you make an incorrect assumption and then build an argument against it. Good luck.

> Once again you make an incorrect assumption and then build an argument against it.

So you are either not a good and rational person, or you don't intend to survive this. Thank you for clarifying.

Re: Not worried about AI taking our jobs; worried it won't take our current jobs

#14

If you have competition, you will not have more than your marginal contribution. If you are free to be human because the tools are working, your marginal contribution will be small, since one guy who accepts not being human could supervise the tools.

I believe there's still plenty of margin to capture beyond merely overseeing AI. Could we reach a point where humans add no marginal utility? Maybe. I hope not, but we can't discount the possibility.

Re: Not worried about AI taking our jobs; worried it won't take our current jobs

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want us to plan, strategize, review, and set AI tools to auto. While they work, we're free to be human - thinking, creating, living. Agree, disagree? It cannot be called assumption, when it comes directly from the horses mouth. Plan and Do. You implicitly assume that you will survive the environment you intend to create, at its most basic. Its not a big assumption to assume you are a rational and good person that…

Once again you make an incorrect assumption and then build an argument against it. Good luck.

If you are interested in a conversation on HN (I assume so, since you made this post), it would help if you elaborated on the ~1 sentence you twice commented in response to a thoughtful writeup:

Which assumption do you see that's incorrect? I don't see one, and I'm sure you prefer clarity to arguing.

Re: Not worried about AI taking our jobs; worried it won't take our current jobs

#16
post #8

You don't seem to understand the how and why society works the way it does, and as a result you believe in some pretty blatantly false things about AI in general. Human organization that we see today occurs because of the exchange of economic activity. Some people have time they trade for in exchange for a store of value they can use to purchase things the need. Others pay people to produce things and then sell thing…

This whole comment is a bit too sensational for me, however I want to highlight one fragment:

> When you have so many people alive, who can do nothing in exchange for food [...]

AI, for now, only exists in the digital space and that's what it will primarily disrupt (at least initially). You're still going to need real people to mow the grass, maintain homes/buildings, ship goods and perform other basic services that underpin society. None of that changes drastically with AI in the picture.

Some people will be out of jobs or replaced, but fundamentally they will just have to do something more tangible to provide value in order to pay the bills.

Re: Not worried about AI taking our jobs; worried it won't take our current jobs

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once again you make an incorrect assumption and then build an argument against it. Good luck.

If you are interested in a conversation on HN (I assume so, since you made this post), it would help if you elaborated on the ~1 sentence you twice commented in response to a thoughtful writeup: Which assumption do you see that's incorrect? I don't see one, and I'm sure you prefer clarity to arguing.

Happy to clarify. The parent comment tackles a macro-economic utopia I never proposed. My post was about individual level gains: using AI to automate routine work, offload mental load, and free time to think, create, or just live.

I’m not claiming to fix the global economy, nor denying real risks like job loss or scarcity. Labeling me a "summer child" assumes I am naive about those challenges...another projection.

In short, I described a practical benefit available today, not a perfect future. A thoughtful reply would engage with those points instead of refuting a position I never took.

Re: Not worried about AI taking our jobs; worried it won't take our current jobs

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are interested in a conversation on HN (I assume so, since you made this post), it would help if you elaborated on the ~1 sentence you twice commented in response to a thoughtful writeup: Which assumption do you see that's incorrect? I don't see one, and I'm sure you prefer clarity to arguing.

Happy to clarify. The parent comment tackles a macro-economic utopia I never proposed. My post was about individual level gains: using AI to automate routine work, offload mental load, and free time to think, create, or just live. I’m not claiming to fix the global economy, nor denying real risks like job loss or scarcity. Labeling me a "summer child" assumes I am naive about those challenges...another projection. In…

I don't think the parent made any of those assumptions. They also never labeled you a summer child. They just pointed out where the original suggestion leads.

Was your original question simply about your personal, individual level gains, or were you asking about a broader perspective (how it would affect all of us)? If it's the former, that's not a very interesting topic. Maybe the other poster assumed you wanted to discuss the latter?

It sounds like you took their comments personally, leading you to stop reading early. I can't blame you here, as I have done so myself before, but you might be missing some good points in the post which don't pertain to you specifically.

Re: Not worried about AI taking our jobs; worried it won't take our current jobs

#19
post #16
post #8

You don't seem to understand the how and why society works the way it does, and as a result you believe in some pretty blatantly false things about AI in general. Human organization that we see today occurs because of the exchange of economic activity. Some people have time they trade for in exchange for a store of value they can use to purchase things the need. Others pay people to produce things and then sell thing…

This whole comment is a bit too sensational for me, however I want to highlight one fragment: > When you have so many people alive, who can do nothing in exchange for food [...] AI, for now, only exists in the digital space and that's what it will primarily disrupt (at least initially). You're still going to need real people to mow the grass, maintain homes/buildings, ship goods and perform other basic services that…

The material I covered here has been well established in classic literature for quite some time (some of which is hundreds of years old), so none of this should come off as sensational.

Feel free to verify yourself through independent means if you have the capability to do so, its a lot of time investment, which is well worth it considering the subject matter represents an existential threat to survival.

Knowledge of existential dangers typically fall into a category where a person would be glad to spend any amount of time or money (assuming they were capable of it), to continue surviving past that danger.

You can find the relevant parts under social contract theory, Malthus/Catton on ecological overshoot, Mises & Menger, and others on the economic foundations and dynamics of fiat/money printing currency, History (Federalist Papers, and many others). If you've had a classical education (trivium/quadrivium curricula) none of this should surprise you.

Being deadly serious here, there is a mountain of vetted material that supports what I said, its not an original thought, it builds on the foundations that have largely been left with the shoulder's of giants by what is called education today. Public education doesn't really teach critical thought, and there are ongoing fights between administrators and the philosophy departments where they are trying to remove those optional classes entirely. You can't teach a lot of philosophy without having taken a course in critical thinking.

> AI for now only exists in the digital space.

You are mistaken about that. AI is also being used in the industrial automation space, as well as other domains such as building architecture and manufacturing (i.e. there are already 3d-printed buildings, CAD machining, AI based QA, etc).

I'm sure you've heard of Siemens, there are many other global companies that have already bridged the digital divide, some started this about 15-20 years ago, and technology has only improved since then.

Integration is now happening at an exponential pace because it has short term profits involved seeing as most business people see labor as the most expensive cost. It is fueled by non-reserve debt financing (money printing).

The magnitude between the peaks of the boom bust cycle is dependent on the shortfall of demand (growth/production) to capital(+profit baked in) lent over the entire cycle as an aggregate.

The continuance of the cycle depends on money retaining its fundamental properties, and those properties fail under money printing, which has been the status quo since 1970s to avoid deflation. Its a narrowing cliff-side that ends at a point no one can see ahead of time.

The failure of Coolidge to both initially regulate the rural bank loans, as well as failing to bail them out later; prior to the great depression led to the wholesale collapse of seasonal lending facility that largely caused the great depression as a chaotic whipsaw. This wasn't corrected until the US entered WW2.

These mechanics have repeated many times if you look into the detailed histories from primary sources. Penn Station bankruptcy collapse (1970s), Savings and Loan (1980s), Atari (1980s), dotcom bust (1990s), 2008 (CDOs), and the sharp increase in money printing with the Fed setting reserve rates to 0% (non-fractional reserve system) and changing to Basel3, the latter of which is based in objective value that fails given that value subjectivity has been long proven by economists and experts.

The issue is a core issue with understanding the mechanics of capital formation.

People are also generally extremely bad at recognizing exponential and logarithmic changes, and we have cognitive biases towards survivorship bias that confound towards an incomplete understanding which is punished when reality punches back (and it doesn't pull its punches).

You neglect that at the end of the cycle, like with any ponzi scheme the outflows exceed inflows, and value collapses to 0. There is nothing that can be exchanged.

Initially in such structured systems (debt and money printing) the value and benefits are front-loaded, but someone always has to pick up the tab with these types of systems when the investment is bad, if no one does or even has the ability to, then the same thing that happened under Coolidge happens at a global socio-economic level.

Distortions are generally not visible except in retrospect, far long after you can do anything to change the outcome.

That is why it is so critically important to have the discussions and conversation of these dangers occur before integration actually takes place.

The process of integration creates a burnt bridge, preventing anyone from going backward, it sails right into a maelstrom, risking the existence of all members both alive and those yet unborn by its members.

There are systems where there are points where you simply cannot sail the ship to safety because the dynamics involved overpower any human action cumulative or individual, and anyone on a ship like that will have its remnants crushed by overpowering forces in the vortex. The visibility might be poor, but knowing about the danger ahead of time may allow safe passage in its vicinity. An analogy sure, but there are many systems like this where without the proper frame of reference, you sail blind, and destructive outcomes await.

Whether its a maelstrom, a dam breaking, a avalanche, or tsunami, people survive by recognizing small but critical details and taking action well beforehand.

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