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Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

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Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#71

Post by wffurr »

alistairSH wrote: post #48
almosthere wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Newsome - "Federal law, as implemented by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), already regulates vehicle safety standards, and adding California-specific requirements would create a patchwork of regulations that undermines this longstanding federal framework. NHTSA is also actively evaluating intelligent speed assistance systems, and imposing state-level mandates at this time risks disrupt…

That arguement doesn’t make sense. We (VA) already require ignition interlocks on DUI’s cars. This isn’t much different.

The vetoed California law would have required passive ISA, I.e. a dashboard light that comes on when it detects speeding, on all new vehicles sold in California.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#72

Post by wffurr »

_bin_ wrote: post #17
wffurr wrote: post #6

Kinda begs the question why cars can go over 100mph in the first place. Also what the heck is with Newsom vetoing the passive ISA bill?

Because engines aren't designed to be run at max output. The fact that an engine can do 150 means it's a lot nicer to drive at 75. I've driven a car that has a top speed of 85 on a good day, with a tailwind and going downhill, and it sucked. Fine for city streets but in my state we have bits of highway that have posted speeds as high as 85 and realistically most people do 9-10 over on long roads outside cities.

Not seeing any argument for allowing the car to exceed 100mph on public roads regardless of what the powertrain is capable of.

People who want to go faster can trailer their race cars to a track.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#73

Post by _bin_ »

amiga386 wrote: post #63
_bin_ wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be incredibly annoying. You what, have to tow your car to a track if you want to race? So now you need two vehicles? Given that outright street racing is common amongst blue-collar or inner-city demographics, this is an unrealistic expectation that will just push more people away from legal venues. It's a policy that says "you can't enjoy your hobby" in disguise that shows disregard for others' preferences…

I don't know how much racing you do, but as far as I've seen, racers do tow their race cars to the track. They rent or own tow trailers and transporters. Race cars are usually heavily modified and aren't street legal, and the drivers don't want them dinged up on the way to the track, and if they fail while racing they need a way to get it back home. If you're racing a street-legal car on a track... it's unlikely to b…

You are talking about serious people not street racers. This is not the demographic who's going down my street five nights a week at a hundred mph in clapped out mitsubishi.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#74

Post by _bin_ »

alistairSH wrote: post #65
_bin_ wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most street racers have some illegal modifications, but the guy driving the riced-out kia isn't really safety-conscious. The hope is to use punishment to shove those people towards tracks (which more people might use if they hadn't been pushed out by noise complaints and such).

Is the guy in the riced out Covic or whatever really interested in the track? Actual racing would require most car prep, different insurance (or none), more effort overall. The generic car person is doing it for social reasons, not because they want competition.

He might capitulate and put up with it if tracks were more common and not pushed out everywhere and if punishments for specifically street racing were increased. Plenty of places "takeovers" should be addressed by bringing about a dozen cop cars and arresting everyone but aren't.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#75

Post by tempestn »

Ekaros wrote: post #38
tokai wrote: post #24

Seems like an over engineered solution. Revoking drivers license and seizing the car would be cheaper and easier to implement. We don't tolerate repeat offenders in most other circumstances. So why is it that you can keep breaking traffic laws without ever really being stopped from driving?

Simples solution for repeated offenders is exponential jail sentences after certain number of infractions. Remove them from society.

For driving offenses, it's exponentially cheaper and easier to revoke driving privilege than to imprison the offender. Of course if someone ignores the ban and continues driving without a license, consequences would then need to escalate.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#76

Post by chneu »

tokai wrote: post #46
tekla wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because revoking a license doesn't stop someone from driving, and seizing the car doesn't stop a person from driving someone elses car. Also, since we live in a card dependent world, you can argue that taking away someones car is destroying their ability to make a living (as much as I think this excuse is horseshit when dealing with dangerous driving)

>doesn't stop a person from driving someone elses car Oh it does. Nobody will lend you a car that be lost to seizure. Denmark has car confiscation for speeding (not even repeated, just for single time 100% over the speed limit), and they will even take rental cars. It has definitely changed how easy it is to loan a car from friends, family, and businesses. Naturally consequences for driving without a license should a…

People who get their licenses taken don't stop driving. That's just how it is.

They'll buy a car or use a friend/family members.

This is an issue in almost rural areas. Something like 75% of people who get their licenses taken continue to drive. They just rack up fines.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#77

Post by chneu »

gotoeleven wrote: post #36
tekla wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because revoking a license doesn't stop someone from driving, and seizing the car doesn't stop a person from driving someone elses car. Also, since we live in a card dependent world, you can argue that taking away someones car is destroying their ability to make a living (as much as I think this excuse is horseshit when dealing with dangerous driving)

?? Yes it does. You presumably go to jail if you get caught driving without a license. Or do they not have legal penalties for driving without a license in virginia? If so, then it sounds like the problem is whatever dumb laws keep people that are driving illegally from going to jail.

Driving without a license will rarely land someone in jail. It just racks up fines and then the person can never get their license back.

It's why a lot of states will occasionally do license fine forgiveness.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#78

Post by _bin_ »

alistairSH wrote: post #66
_bin_ wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well 80 would be a bad limit; there are roads in Texas posted 85 which means you can do 94 without even state troopers hassling you. I don't want a static limit because I can't go race, and I don't want a dynamic limit because 1. it's not perfect and I'd really chafe against being limited to 65 or 75 as a fallback, and 2. I don't trust the government that once tried to put in a nationwide 55mph speed limit for non-sa…

This law isn’t prior restraint - the state is trying to g to install these in repeat offenders’ cars. But, to that point, I mostly agree. I’d rather we hired some quality road engineers and urban planners who are willing to build roads and towns that aren’t car-dependent hellscapes.

I have less of an issue installing these in the vehicles of repeat offenders but much of the conversation here has been around more general installation or mandating of governors.

I doubt that existing areas are going to see that happen. Plus, I'd rather live in a totally car-dependent area because 1. it makes it harder for people I don't want to live near to move in. Lower crime, fewer cars on blocks in front yards, etc. and 2. I like having lots of space. I like having room for a shop/lab combo. I like having space for a full-size piano. I am not willing to surrender all that for the sake of "walkability". Also 3. it's 105F in the summer here. Honestly, I'm not much interested in walkable cities in this part of the country.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#79

Post by jjav »

alistairSH wrote: post #55
_bin_ wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is precisely that. How can you hope to encourage people to move to tracks if you require them to find a pickup that can tow cars there? If you keep closing down more and more tracks? I believe in high availability of firearms because I'm principally against prior restraint. The state doesn't get to take machineguns away from people who haven't demonstrated abuse of them to the standard of reasonable doubt. T…

I used to race cars. Driving a race car on the street is dumb AF. Rollcage will crush your skull if you aren’t helmeted and in the 6-point harness. Suspension is bone jarring (and expensive to maintain). The exhaust is not legal. And on and on. Nobody races steeet legal cars. Except maybe a few drag racers, and half those cars probably have illegal tires or emissions removals, but they drove on the street anyway. Sou…

> Nobody races steeet legal cars.

Most people don't but that's an overly broad generalization.

I raced Spec Miata in its early days (2000-2010) and it was possible (and I did) to keep a moderately competitive Spec Miata still street legal. I didn't have space for a trailer so had to drive it to the track.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#80

Post by joshlemer »

alistairSH wrote: post #57
joshlemer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really is so obviously reasonable it makes you wonder why this isn't already in place. For instance e-bikes are all speed and power limited, why aren't cars?

No, they aren’t. The big brands’ sell limited e-bikes, but there’s a massive market for unlimited e-bikes that are basically electric motorbikes with nominal pedals to try and pass as bikes.

Well I mean, in Canada, Europe and the US these would be illegal if they're able to go more than 32, 25, and 40 km/h respectively. That doesn't mean there aren't illegal ebikes out there but I think the vast majority of e-bikes on the road comply with the legal limits.
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