Earlier quoted context omitted.
Try commonsense. Politicians trying to improve their electoral prospects is not fringe conspiracy theory.
That's not a citation.
No its not. It's commonsense.
ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
821–830 of 908 posts
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#822Earlier quoted context omitted.
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> in order to sway voter demographics in their favour [citation needed]
Its interesting you said "citation needed" on that part; I would have focused first on the completely bogus estimate of the number of illegal entries that occurred during the administration, which is about 6 times the actual estimated amount, and in the neighborhood of (a little above) the high-end estimates the total undocumented population.
But, yeah, the whole thing is just repeating partisan propaganda with no factual basis.
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#823Earlier quoted context omitted.
> every individual involved in this is making a personal choice to let this happen. To be fair, you and I are involved. I'm on vacation in Mexico. You're presumably also doing something comfortable. We've had, in the span of days, a judge arrested in her court room and multiple U.S. citizens--children, no less---illegally detained and deported. It's blowing my mind to say this. But the right is clearly using violence…
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If people of the past would have followed that argument, we would not have seen the declaration of human rights of the French Revolution, not have had the civil war, slaves might still be slaves. Hitler’s successors would reign Europe.
Sometimes good people have to do what is necessary, even when it means to make things worse initially.
No, are we in such a moment now? I don’t know, but that’s the problem, right? You never know at the time.
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#824Earlier quoted context omitted.
In your analogy, are undocumented immigrants not the huddled masses yearning to breathe free?
Of course. But they’re supposed to arrive at ports of entry and follow the process. While it has no legal significance, that poem is written on base of the Statue of Liberty next to the immigration center at Ellis Island. It’s a pretty wild take to think that it’s means that people should cut down barbed wire fences and sneak into the country under the cover of darkness.
While we were tracking humans coming into America via ship back to the 1820s, the formal data collection approximating the modern system didn't even begin until 1891, seven years after the Statue was gifted to the US.
The "wild take" (which is, honestly, quite mundane) is the barbed wire fences don't even need to be up. We got along for a century and change soft-handling immigration (even longer, if you don't consider the border to be "strictly enfroced" until Operation Wetback in the 1950s). America has been strongest when it didn't care where you came from unless you gave it a reason to care.
Who is actually benefitting from a highly-militarized and exclusive southern border?
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#825Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Are you a moderate who has a better plan? stop supporting moderate politicians that appeal to no damn person. find someone with charisma like obama. there is no magical moderate voter that the dems keep hoping to appeal to. they already have been the center right party for decades now.
1) Obama was a moderate 2) Moderates do, in fact, have stronger appeal than leftists. It's empirically true. As evidence, see: literally just about every election where a leftist is on the ballot, with the possible exception of AOC who has Obama-tier charisma factor and also not-coincidentally has moderated her image a bit the past few years to the point where the most lefty leftists think she's a sellout. People lik…
sorry i thought i was clear but yes obama was definitely a moderate but i meant find a progressive (with charisma like obama) that can inspire
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#826Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Are you a moderate who has a better plan? stop supporting moderate politicians that appeal to no damn person. find someone with charisma like obama. there is no magical moderate voter that the dems keep hoping to appeal to. they already have been the center right party for decades now.
> find someone with charisma like obama. Obama was a moderate politician with massive charisma
correct. i was somewhat careless with my wording but i meant find someone with the massive charisma that obama has and is also a progressive.
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#827Earlier quoted context omitted.
And it can cause headaches with people being stateless because neither the country of their parents nor the country of their birth recognizes them. And that's something that's normally prohibited by treaty: you can't take an action that will render someone stateless.
Is that really so? It seems odd because not every country has soil-based birthright citizenship. So, there must be some combinations that will result in a stateless person (although I would expect that this is an exceptional case that is just handled as an exception).
And it causes problems.
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#828Earlier quoted context omitted.
The broader conversation is impossible to have. “What policies do we need to ensure due process without compromising the effectiveness of immigration enforcement?” Even trying to start the conversation feels like a troll, because when the system looks like it does today who’s going to concede the premise that immigration enforcement shouldn’t be compromised?
You're starting from an unverified assumption (the presumed ineffectiveness of immigration enforcement), that's maybe why it feels off to you. How is it ineffective, and why? Once you have answers to that, you can start the conversation about policy.
There's millions of people currently in the US who aren't authorized to be in the US. 11 million, if you believe Pew's estimate (https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/07/22/what-we-k...). I'm not sure how it's possible to avoid the conclusion that immigration enforcement isn't effective.
Why it's ineffective is, again, something that's been impossible to research for as long as I've been paying attention to immigration. I genuinely don't know where I could go to get answers. Other than a couple people spinning evidence-free conspiracy theories about their political opponents, nobody seems interested in analyzing it.
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#829Earlier quoted context omitted.
The jobs that don't require a delicate hand are to a large degree already automated. But the robots are not up to the delicate stuff.
>But the robots are not up to the delicate stuff. Robots did my dad's knee replacement surgery. I don't think this argument holds water anymore. Maybe if you make your claim more precise: delicate + scale. But, if that's the case, the scale problem is solved with money.
Lots of teleoperated stuff in the medical world. That's not the same as robots. There's still a skilled hand at the controls making the medical decisions.
Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation
#830Earlier quoted context omitted.
Classic becoming the thing which you hate.
> becoming the thing which you hate More an honest reading of the history of power. If one side seizes a previously norms-gated tactic and is allowed to use it, the other side either seizes it, too, or ceases to exist. (Obviously, the preferred outcome is this is not allowed to stand.)
I totally agree that is the common and probable outcome. However, is not the exclusive outcome, nor does it have to be enthusiastically supported.
Norm erosion and law breaking often see tit for tat retaliation with the notable exception of when norms and order are productively restored.
I follow your comments because I find them balanced and often insightful, even (or perhaps especially) when I disagree. For this reason, I was surprised to see you advocate more unjust and amoral behavior, even if it is in the form of retaliation.