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Deepfake porn is destroying real lives in South Korea

cnn.com

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Re: Deepfake porn is destroying real lives in South Korea

#71

Post by int_19h »

lazide wrote: post #62
Probuin wrote: post #20

I understand the laws against distribution, but can anyone explain why creating/possessing deep-faked porn for private use is so morally reprehensible or even criminal? I can't identify a victim in this scenario. Whose business is it? I genuinely couldn't care less if someone did this "to" me, but then I recognise that as a middle aged dude that's not ever happening so I may have a blind spot here. How would I even k…

You’re getting downvoted because it triggers some really deep ick feelings. Ick feelings that as a middle aged dude you’ve likely never had (or will likely have), so can’t appreciate. If you’ve had a crazy stalker (truly crazy), you’d probably think differently. For instance, that Star Trek episode where Barclay was simulating the crew and having ‘relationships’ with them on the holodeck - in ‘real life’ the crew wou…

I think it's perfectly reasonable to be grossed out by someone generating porn of other people without consent for their own personal consumption. But when it comes to legislation, surely that should be driven by harm assessment? Distribution of such images is clearly harmful and should be illegal, but I find it hard to come up with any reasonable arguments for criminalizing mere possession.

Re: Deepfake porn is destroying real lives in South Korea

#72

Post by closewith »

Kittru wrote: post #66
closewith wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

There is no logic in Nathan’s argument - only a facade of logic designed to justify his misogyny. He constructs a false trichotomy where every “choice” serves only to strip women of their rights or autonomy. That’s not reason - that’s prejudice dressed up in pseudo-rational language.

You cannot reason someone out of a position they didn’t arrive at through reason. Nathan’s view is not a logical conclusion - it’s a pre-existing bias looking for any excuse to present itself as inevitable.

And if you genuinely don’t see the problem with that - if you believe that calling out misogyny is somehow “emotional manipulation” - then you need to take a long, hard look at yourself. Because whether you realise it or not, you are aligning yourself with a worldview that is profoundly dangerous to women.

Re: Deepfake porn is destroying real lives in South Korea

#73

Post by obscurette »

Probuin wrote: post #20

I understand the laws against distribution, but can anyone explain why creating/possessing deep-faked porn for private use is so morally reprehensible or even criminal? I can't identify a victim in this scenario. Whose business is it? I genuinely couldn't care less if someone did this "to" me, but then I recognise that as a middle aged dude that's not ever happening so I may have a blind spot here. How would I even k…

While thinking can't (and must not) be criminalized, materializing a fantasies even in "nonharmful" way can damage people a lot – these materials can be found for example.

Re: Deepfake porn is destroying real lives in South Korea

#74

Post by djaychela »

dyauspitr wrote: post #48
phinnaeus wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not so hard for me to imagine a world where women have equal freedoms to men and are not actively discouraged from having children. We have structured society in such a way that it is often the more rational financial, logistical, etc choice to be child free. Do you think we can fix those problems without stripping women of freedoms? I do.

Maybe eventually but I think South Korea is already at or very close to the point of no return from total population collapse. Given that we’ve never seen an example of what you’re referring to we probably won’t get there in time.

https://youtu.be/Ufmu1WD2TSk?si=DY3pla26JO3nTF1b

This video covers it pretty well

Re: Deepfake porn is destroying real lives in South Korea

#75

Post by lazide »

int_19h wrote: post #71
lazide wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re getting downvoted because it triggers some really deep ick feelings. Ick feelings that as a middle aged dude you’ve likely never had (or will likely have), so can’t appreciate. If you’ve had a crazy stalker (truly crazy), you’d probably think differently. For instance, that Star Trek episode where Barclay was simulating the crew and having ‘relationships’ with them on the holodeck - in ‘real life’ the crew wou…

I think it's perfectly reasonable to be grossed out by someone generating porn of other people without consent for their own personal consumption. But when it comes to legislation, surely that should be driven by harm assessment? Distribution of such images is clearly harmful and should be illegal, but I find it hard to come up with any reasonable arguments for criminalizing mere possession.

It’s just an expansion of the same rules as CSAM (which typically - but sometimes not for a short period of time in some locales - includes generated content).

I imagine it won’t be long before this is used to try to ban porn entirely, since ‘there is no way to be sure’. And then crack down on chat groups, social media, etc. since that is where any of the legit problematic content is going to be distributed most of the time eh?

Re: Deepfake porn is destroying real lives in South Korea

#76

Post by jimbob45 »

closewith wrote: post #58
nathanaldensr wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

You’re barking up the wrong tree. If South Korea doesn’t turn things around, it’s logical that they get reabsorbed back into North Korea and then women have to deal with that. Choosing to ignore that reality isn’t going to make it go away.

Re: Deepfake porn is destroying real lives in South Korea

#77

Post by lazide »

novavex wrote: post #46
lazide wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While Men certainly can be (and likely will be) a major driver, don’t underestimate the willingness of women to target other women using the same tactics and techniques if they think they can get away with it. Men may kill you, but women will make you wish you were dead.

Man comments like this make me a lot more fearful of random men than random women. I've seen so many more vile comments touted by men (I choose to believe the majority of them are bots!) than I've ever seen made by women on regular sites. I don't understand how people become this way.

In this scenario, random women aren’t typically the threat - it’s the women closest to you.

The reason it becomes like this is due to a fight for control, often a pathological one.

Men will make terrible comments and poison the well to try to drive women (and other men) to them for ‘safety’, as a show of force. No one wants to be on the losing/weak side. And by painting all men as scary, they undermine their competition, and by being blatantly the scariest without consequence they show they are the strongest. See what is happening in US politics. Being visibly scary is a form of marketing/recruitment.

Women will make terrible comments and poison the well to stop men (and other women) from leaving because the outside world is too scary, or the alternatives are too scary. No one wants to leave ‘safety’ to get eaten by a monster. And better the devil you know, than the one you don’t eh? Women will often be covertly scary, because their goal is usually retention, not recruitment.

You’re watching the war of control unfold.

Re: Deepfake porn is destroying real lives in South Korea

#78

Post by ponector »

closewith wrote: post #57
dyauspitr wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> However women would have to give up a lot of their hard won rights. That's nonsense. Across the developed world, economic pressure on young people is reducing the options available to them. Many more couples would have more children if the economic barriers were removed, including the impact on career and cost of childcare. Of course, developed nations will (hopefully) never return to the 5+ children per woman whic…

The truth is birth rates are down almost everywhere, not only across rich countries.

Economic issues? Loneliness? People spend time in TikTok instead of dating?

Modern high standards of living makes it hard to rise children. That's why rich people usually have many. Average Joe can not afford 3 kids.

Re: Deepfake porn is destroying real lives in South Korea

#79

Post by closewith »

jimbob45 wrote: post #76
closewith wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You’re barking up the wrong tree. If South Korea doesn’t turn things around, it’s logical that they get reabsorbed back into North Korea and then women have to deal with that. Choosing to ignore that reality isn’t going to make it go away.

So your solution - apparently the only one you can imagine - is to remove bodily autonomy from women. That’s not logic. That’s authoritarianism, selectively applied to justify your own biases.

As a thought experiment: If the economic and social burdens are what are preventing South Korean women from choosing to have children, why don’t we instead remove autonomy from men? We could provide women with universal, generous incomes, give them priority over men in all areas of life, and place them in charge of all family and household decisions. Men could be assigned the responsibility for all undesirable work, both inside and outside the home, to maximise women’s freedom and security when choosing whether to have children.

If that course of action seems absurd to you - but Nathan’s proposal to strip women of their rights seems “logical” - then your concern isn’t really about saving South Korea, or humanity, or civilisation. It’s just sexism and misogyny, pretending to be pragmatism.

Re: Deepfake porn is destroying real lives in South Korea

#80

Post by analognoise »

dyauspitr wrote: post #42
rwyinuse wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, there is a reason why South Korea continues to break records for the lowest fertility rate in the world, making even Japan's birth rate issues look small in comparison. Their society appears to be deeply, deeply sick in numerous ways. Not a good place to live, unless your calling is to work all your waking hours to make the rich even richer.

[flagged]

"It is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism."

Instead of fixing our societal problems - all of which have to do with the distribution of resources, healthcare, etc - you're actually advocating for enslaving (sorry, "disempowering") women?

Surely we can think of a better solution than that. We've been to space, created dams that slow the rate the Earth spins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Gorges_Dam#Terrestrial_i...), but we just can't do better than... that?

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