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ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

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Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#711

Post by orwin »

nineplay wrote: post #557
weaksauce wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you a moderate who has a better plan? stop supporting moderate politicians that appeal to no damn person. find someone with charisma like obama. there is no magical moderate voter that the dems keep hoping to appeal to. they already have been the center right party for decades now.

> stop supporting moderate politicians that appeal to no damn person I think you are right but I think half of democratic voters think the party has gone too left ( abortion, gender politics ) while half thinks it has gone too far right. The democratic party is trying to have it both ways and utterly failing, but in their defense I don't think fully embracing either side will be enough for them to win. The problem is…

What did the US democratic party ever do that was considered too left wing? Not said or wishcast, what material thing did they implement that was too left wing on abortion?

Theoretically, abortion in the US used to be extremely liberal (in the original meaning of the word liberal).

Materially? No one wait week 22 for an abortion unless it's an emergency, considering the damage it does.

The percentage of childbirth death plus late stage abortion in the US is barely superior to the one in my country where abortions after weeks 18 needs to be argued by two doctors and a social worker in front of a judge. And that percentage is only superior because US have a very, very high childbirth death for a developed country.

Materially, Usians do less late stage abortion than other developed countries where those are way more restrictive. Because people love to talk about 'theorically' when they talk about other people body and choices, never about what really happens, and that bothers me greatly.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#713

Post by 1659447091 »

AustinDev wrote: post #655
JackYoustra wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point I mostly agree with you, but I kinda want to keep going on the sovereignty thing. Prosecutorial discretion and state incapacity to prosecute every crime has existed... literally forever. Sovereignty only means "supreme power or authority" - I don't see how migrants threaten it, it's not like they're trying to lead an insurrection or anything.

Sovereignty may have been an imprecise word choice for sure. However, I do not think having 10's of millions of people in the country without legal status who can be easily abused is 'a good thing'. I also don't think amnesty is a viable solution. So mass remigration is the only real solution I see. As we approach a post-labor economy over the coming decades how many more people do we actually need? I don't know I'm…

> On the legal immigration side cancel all non-tourist visa types and let existing visas expire.

You're saying you want to remove immigration visa's from the Spouse of a US Citizen? A US Citizen's intercountry adopted orphaned child, and immediate relatives (like a parent) of said US citizens? I mean trumps parent-in-laws already took advantage of that on their way to being naturalized, so Im sure he'd be good getting rid of that one now.

> Replace them with a simple employer sponsored visa with a ~400k/year (inflation adjusted) payroll tax and let any company that wants to pay the tax sponsor as many people as they want.

You also want US farms to pay 400K/year for their seasonal farm workers (H-2A), when they are already squeezed by the couple thousands they pay plus all the other cost currently? Do you want to be able to afford food?

I guess we can put up windmills on current farm land and import all food from countries that exploit their workers and pay them far less than $15-20/h these workers get. They probably don't provide meals, safe housing & work conditions either, as is already required with H-2A. Now you want them to pay 400k on top of that because it's difficult to find US Citizens who do not see this kind of farm work as "below" them?

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#714

Post by lokar »

didgeoridoo wrote: post #316
lokar wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Entering the US without permission is a civil offense, not a crime in the way most people think of them.

You’re thinking of visa overstay (a civil offense). Unauthorized entry is a criminal misdemeanor. Re-entry after deportation rises to a felony.

Ah, yes. But a misdemeanor is fairly minor, all things considered.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#715

Post by bee_rider »

throwaway48476 wrote: post #683
bee_rider wrote: post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see any connection here.

Birthright citizenship doesn't apply to children born to parents subject to a foreign power. That's what the text of the ammendment says.

That isn’t what it says.

> All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

All people in the US are subject to the jurisdiction of the US (other than some very unusual situation like diplomats and, in the past, some Native American tribes).

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#716

Post by bee_rider »

perihelions wrote: post #395
nharada wrote: post #314

Feels like this conversation is full of people getting hung up on arguing the technicalities and exact phrasing of this situation. Is that really important to the broader conversation?

C-f "citizenship"—55 results C-f "metastatic cancer"—1 There's a poor child that's being withheld access to their medication and to their oncologists, and the adults in the room—adults in uniforms, adults with guns, adults in suits and adults in black robes—all of these adults are doing their adult things with their adult words, and the sum total of all that is the child still is without their cancer medicine. What g…

Just cancer returns more than one match, fwiw. Although only 7 at the moment, for my search.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#717

Post by LorenPechtel »

neilv wrote: post #451
Waterluvian wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel more disgusted by the Americans who know this is wrong but do nothing. I have no patience for evil people, but the truly damned are all the Americans who know and sense better but do not or cannot act properly. If deporting U.S. CITIZEN CHILDREN does not send you to the streets with fire and fury, you are well and truly lost. So much damn talk over the decades I've been alive about patriotism and liberty from…

Additional reasons for inaction: 1. They don't know what they can do that will be effective. 2. They don't want to be targeted as dissidents or non-loyalists to the regime. 3. They're drained by their individual economic situations and worries. 4. They're drained by severe disappointment in large swaths of the electorate, and in the failure of checks and balances. 5. Events are so upsetting that they're in denial or…

Worse, I believe anything the average citizen can do will either be ineffective or counterproductive. They are not going to listen to anything other than force and any outside force will simply provide a focus. Thus the force must come from within--law enforcement has to do their job. Or, if they don't, a military coup.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#718

Post by LorenPechtel »

cryptoegorophy wrote: post #441
nharada wrote: post #314

Feels like this conversation is full of people getting hung up on arguing the technicalities and exact phrasing of this situation. Is that really important to the broader conversation?

What’s the conversation? Separating kids from parents or deporting them with parents because we don’t want them to be separate? There is no question about breaking the law by parents. Question is do you let children be with their mothers(who apparently asked to do so) or no. As someone who came legally to Canada and went through thorough screening of 4 years before coming I just don’t get how people are ok with “chea…

You think that letter was not signed under duress??

And I don't see the system particularly being gamed. The reality is an awful lot of people are fleeing oppression. The gangs and the cartels etc make it so the people don't have an option but to turn to them.

And despite what the reich wing says most of the immigrants are not a problem. And the reich wing specifically set out to ensure Biden couldn't accomplish anything. And now we see high profile and often wrong deportations, yet a lower total rate than under Biden.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#719

Post by LorenPechtel »

kcplate wrote: post #695
bodiekane wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just don’t get how people are ok with “cheaters” gaming the system. This is a story about citizens being deported without due process, without access to lawyers, without access to healthcare. You don't have to be "ok with cheaters" to still want those people to have basic human rights and to see the system have legitimate judicial review. The punishment here is far worse than the crime, and it's directed at childre…

[flagged]

Do you not recognize that that letter was most likely signed under duress? She was probably offered to permit her baby to be deported with or or the baby goes into the foster care system, not to the husband. The Felon has specifically used separation from families and destroyed records as a weapon before, why do you think he's not doing it now??

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#720

Post by LorenPechtel »

throwaway48476 wrote: post #668
BobaFloutist wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our economy, ability to feed ourselves, and ability to sustain our population is fundamentally dependent on "Permanent legal mass migration."

Wages are too low to incentivize investment in automating these jobs, precisely because of illegal immigration.

The jobs that don't require a delicate hand are to a large degree already automated. But the robots are not up to the delicate stuff.
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