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Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing

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Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing

#161

Post by gruez »

rahen wrote: post #150
udev4096 wrote: post #109

> User permissions for a large number of apps were all enabled This says it all. Privacy is not by default, because of souless mega corporations, including HN which has an extremely invasive privacy policy. If you don't actively take steps to improve your privacy, they will continue to exploit it. Use GrapheneOS, it is the most private and secure mobile operating system. Nothing happens without your explicit permissi…

These discussions seem to come up frequently lately. Both /e/OS and Lineage with microG provide good enough privacy for those who can't afford high-end smartphones like the Google Pixels. The ranking would probably be: - Pixel on GrapheneOS - Any Android smartphone on Lineage or /e/OS - iPhone on recent iOS (the best choice for technically illiterate people) People concerned with privacy should avoid stock Android ph…

>- Pixel on GrapheneOS

>- Any Android smartphone on Lineage or /e/OS

None of those operating systems does anything for tracking/advertising SDKs in apps, which is most of where the data leaks are coming from, not google/apple. Moreover unless you're willing to go no proprietary apps (ie. most apps people actually use), you'll need google play services, which means google can still collect data on you.

Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing

#162

Post by gruez »

spunker540 wrote: post #149
bsimpson wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a crime that were compelled to concede our 4th Amendment rights in order to travel.

Same with drivers licenses and passports having a photo requirement too

>drivers licenses and passports having a photo requirement too

You're free to take the bus, or hire a chauffeur. A private pilots license doesn't have any pictures either.

Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing

#164

Post by gruez »

bentt wrote: post #157

One time my wife and I had a random conversation, utterly random, about cat hamster wheels. Like, why doesn't that exist? I got an ad for it the next day (it exists). I don't believe that my phone is not listening to me and I challenge you to choose a random word out of the dictionary and say it 100 times in front of your phone.

>I don't believe that my phone is not listening to me and I challenge you to choose a random word out of the dictionary and say it 100 times in front of your phone.

The person making the claim should be responsible for furnishing the proof. If it's really so simple to prove, why hasn't anyone done a carefully controlled experiment proving this once and for all? At the very least, it'd move us beyond vague anecdotes on social media.

Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing

#165

Post by latexr »

bentt wrote: post #157

One time my wife and I had a random conversation, utterly random, about cat hamster wheels. Like, why doesn't that exist? I got an ad for it the next day (it exists). I don't believe that my phone is not listening to me and I challenge you to choose a random word out of the dictionary and say it 100 times in front of your phone.

> I challenge you to choose a random word out of the dictionary and say it 100 times in front of your phone.

That test has been done. It is explained at length in the article under the heading “The data doesn't add up”.

Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing

#166

Post by latexr »

gruez wrote: post #164
bentt wrote: post #157

One time my wife and I had a random conversation, utterly random, about cat hamster wheels. Like, why doesn't that exist? I got an ad for it the next day (it exists). I don't believe that my phone is not listening to me and I challenge you to choose a random word out of the dictionary and say it 100 times in front of your phone.

>I don't believe that my phone is not listening to me and I challenge you to choose a random word out of the dictionary and say it 100 times in front of your phone. The person making the claim should be responsible for furnishing the proof. If it's really so simple to prove, why hasn't anyone done a carefully controlled experiment proving this once and for all? At the very least, it'd move us beyond vague anecdotes o…

> If it's really so simple to prove, why hasn't anyone done a carefully controlled experiment proving this once and for all?

They did, and found no listening being done. It’s in the article under “The data doesn't add up”.

Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing

#167

Post by gruez »

jeroenhd wrote: post #135
simonw wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Google or Meta can correlate behavioral data like this. Your ISP cannot do that by intercepting your searches. I care about accuracy when it comes to privacy conversations. I don't want people wasting their time on theories that aren't true when they should be focusing on the real issues at stake.

For what it's worth, the ISP may not know the search terms entered, but it can see "google.com" followed by "itchybuttcream.net" when people click the first results. The data will grow more granular over time as users click the second or even third result on Google. On WiFi you control this risk can be mitigated (force DNS to your own server that uses ODoH or similar) but for most people ISPs are still sitting on dat…

They can still get the hostname of the server you're connecting to through SNI, and that's far harder to hide. Most sites aren't using eSNI/ECH.

Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing

#168

Post by sroussey »

gruez wrote: post #159
pests wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has moved these indicators into their “exclaves” removing any control or influence from the OS / software running.

Source? AFAIK they only have hardware indicators for webcams on cams, and it's not used for microphones.

Different person here, but Apple has tried it multiple times in different ways.

They started in ios14, iOS 17 got new Secure Exclave path that (A18, M4).

Search for “Secure Indicator Light”.

Also searching for “Secure Exclave” will reveal some fun reads.

Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing

#169

Post by sroussey »

bentt wrote: post #157

One time my wife and I had a random conversation, utterly random, about cat hamster wheels. Like, why doesn't that exist? I got an ad for it the next day (it exists). I don't believe that my phone is not listening to me and I challenge you to choose a random word out of the dictionary and say it 100 times in front of your phone.

It’s too easy to check on your phone if such a thing were happening.

Your TV though… that IS listening and the TV even has options to disable it. It’s on every TV shipped in at least the last 5 years, maybe 10.

Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing

#170

Post by tsoukase »

bentt wrote: post #157

One time my wife and I had a random conversation, utterly random, about cat hamster wheels. Like, why doesn't that exist? I got an ad for it the next day (it exists). I don't believe that my phone is not listening to me and I challenge you to choose a random word out of the dictionary and say it 100 times in front of your phone.

A few times per year I similarly have a conversation with my wife at night (lastly about a hair type) and the next morning a corresponding ad was presented at her at Facebook (shampoo). Only her Android phone was at the room (open, logged in Facebook in Chrome, no app). I definitely believe they hear us but they trigger the action with care and selectively, so as not to get caught (eg to low tech people, when the ad is very relevant to the need etc).

I am astonished that nobody had ever done a reverse engineering research yet.

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