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ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

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Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#661

Post by int_19h »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #592
slg wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's a poor child that's being withheld access to their medication and to their oncologists, and the adults in the room—adults in uniforms, adults with guns, adults in suits and adults in black robes—all of these adults are doing their adult things with their adult words, and the sum total of all that is the child still is without their cancer medicine. People like to blame these sort of situations on leadership…

> every individual involved in this is making a personal choice to let this happen. To be fair, you and I are involved. I'm on vacation in Mexico. You're presumably also doing something comfortable. We've had, in the span of days, a judge arrested in her court room and multiple U.S. citizens--children, no less---illegally detained and deported. It's blowing my mind to say this. But the right is clearly using violence…

Remember Willem van Spronsen?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Tacoma_immigration_detent...

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#662

Post by int_19h »

low_tech_love wrote: post #590
slg wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's a poor child that's being withheld access to their medication and to their oncologists, and the adults in the room—adults in uniforms, adults with guns, adults in suits and adults in black robes—all of these adults are doing their adult things with their adult words, and the sum total of all that is the child still is without their cancer medicine. People like to blame these sort of situations on leadership…

Every individual involved in this is doing it because there is something to be gained. The system is basically saying “the more you deport, the more numbers you generate, the more funding you get and the less I will check what you do with it”. We can blame the individuals sure, but if they keep getting showered with money for doing the wrong thing, of course the system has a big responsibility. Why should the people…

Based on some interactions I have had with CBP and ICE in the past as a legal immigrant, I'm confident that many of those people aren't doing it because of any sort of monetary gain or career advancement, but simply because it gives them an outlet to realize their sadistic tendencies.

And because is tolerated and even encouraged, these jobs attract exactly those kinds of people. Which is how you end up with an organization with an internal culture that revels in human suffering.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#663

Post by BobaFloutist »

chasd00 wrote: post #198
gpm wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In at least one of the cases here: The father explicitly did not want the child deported with the mother, had informed ICE of that, and initiated legal proceedings to that effect [1]. The mother and US citizen child were held largely incommunicado. They were not given access to a lawyer, and communication with the father was monitored, and upon the father attempting to give them the phone number for an attorney the p…

A mother’s wish, written/formal or not, for her child will always override that of a father. Fair or not, that’s what happens in the US courts.

> Fair or not, that’s what happens in the US courts.

That's also not actually true. Mothers tend to get custody because both parties are more likely to agree to give them custody (or the father is more likely to cede custody).

If it comes to an actual legal battle, fathers are actually more likely to win custody than mothers.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#664

Post by BobaFloutist »

hsuduebc2 wrote: post #347
oblio wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

End jus solis. Allow all current parents to stay. There ya go, the humane solution to this.

Can someone who down voted this comment please explain why? Is this because you do not agree with his general stance or because it simplifies and doesn't contribute to the debate?

I think birthright citizenship is one of the few examples of America doing something strictly better than most other countries.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#665

Post by bee_rider »

oblio wrote: post #271
bee_rider wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the non-extreme option, if the plan is to kick out the non-citizen parents of US citizen children?

End jus solis. Allow all current parents to stay. There ya go, the humane solution to this.

Birthright citizenship is explicitly included in the 14’th amendment of the US constitution. Technically the constitution could be amended again. But if we include wildly controversial constitutional amendments that one of our parties would be completely opposed in the list of possibilities, the conversation will quickly get silly.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#666

Post by BobaFloutist »

koolba wrote: post #158
miltonlost wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh wow, what a choice! Imagine, having a gun to your head and saying "but i had a choice!" In no way can you say that these people, given no legal advocates, chose to bring their children, or at least freely chose.

Being eventually forced to decide whether to leave your child behind or take them with you out of the USA is a direct consequence of the choice to illegally enter the country. Are you suggesting we never deport parents under any circumstance? Having a citizen child is not some get-out-deportation-free card.

Actually yeah, I think having a minor citizen child should probably automatically make you a citizen, or at the very least a legal permanent resident (but that's stupid, let's just stick to citizen).

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#667

Post by bee_rider »

hsuduebc2 wrote: post #347
oblio wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

End jus solis. Allow all current parents to stay. There ya go, the humane solution to this.

Can someone who down voted this comment please explain why? Is this because you do not agree with his general stance or because it simplifies and doesn't contribute to the debate?

“End Jus Soli” would require a constitutional amendment and would be universally opposed by at least one party. So, it is bringing the conversation in the direction of ridiculous out-there topics.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#668

Post by throwaway48476 »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #660
remarkEon wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re point (5), the "gang of eight" bill would've been the de facto process (illegally entering, having children or marrying, attempting to bring family over via chain migration) the de jure one via advertising to the rest of the word that violating US immigration law does not matter. We ended up running an experiment over the course of the last 4 years to see what that looks like and the results are grim. >There are s…

Our economy, ability to feed ourselves, and ability to sustain our population is fundamentally dependent on "Permanent legal mass migration."

Wages are too low to incentivize investment in automating these jobs, precisely because of illegal immigration.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#669

Post by annexrichmond »

JackYoustra wrote: post #580
annexrichmond wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are really twisting things to make your argument sound plausible in the general case. More supply means less wages. Why focus on low paying jobs? Are you seriously suggesting that if we import every software engineer from India that wants to come here that my salary will increase? If so, that's very interesting why tech CEOs are lobbying so hard for this.

Your "more supply equals lower wages" argument is demolished by top economic research. A recent NBER study calculated that "immigration, thanks to native-immigrant complementarity and college skill content of immigrants, had a positive and significant effect between +1.7 to +2.6% on wages of less educated native workers" between 2000-2019. The economy isn't zero-sum. As Milton Friedman noted, "most economic fallacies…

Strawman. You're talking about wages and jobs in aggregate which wasn't my argument at all. Nothing you said addresses how my salary is affected in the industry the person is joining.

Sure, in total, other jobs may be created and growth is increased -- it's essentially a tautology.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#670

Post by belorn »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #592
slg wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's a poor child that's being withheld access to their medication and to their oncologists, and the adults in the room—adults in uniforms, adults with guns, adults in suits and adults in black robes—all of these adults are doing their adult things with their adult words, and the sum total of all that is the child still is without their cancer medicine. People like to blame these sort of situations on leadership…

> every individual involved in this is making a personal choice to let this happen. To be fair, you and I are involved. I'm on vacation in Mexico. You're presumably also doing something comfortable. We've had, in the span of days, a judge arrested in her court room and multiple U.S. citizens--children, no less---illegally detained and deported. It's blowing my mind to say this. But the right is clearly using violence…

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