Why PHP won • Hacker News Board

Re: Why PHP won

#51

Post by icode » Sat, Jan 17, 2009, 9:36 AM UTC

vlad wrote: post #48

tlrobinson wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, was this a joke? I honestly can't tell.

I don't think it is. The bleeding edge of Web 1.0 or even Web 2.0 development required a LAMP stack. The author says that compared to programming desktop applications (all of the languages he mentioned), the web based stack of MySQL, PHP, and Linux better allowed him to create apps that users wanted. Developers who started with PHP and moved up to Ruby and Python may not realize that older developers who started with…

Not only compared to desktop applications was LAMP a huge advantage, but also compared to Microsofts Web-Technologie (IIS,MS-Server,ASP and later .NET). I was able to create apps the user wanted in the years I used MS technologie, but I did not like it very much. When I discovered LAMP it was like YEAH! and I stayed at home and coded away for weeks and some great stuff came out of this.

As for the language (you mention moving "up" to Ruby or Python), I dont really care if I do

  str_replace('stuff','zen','stuff and the art not to care');

or

  'stuff and the art not to care'.kickasstransform('stuff','zen');

or whatever the latest hottness is :-)

When it comes to things that matter, I dont miss anything in PHP. For example, Javascript is a cooler language, because it has first class functions and all that crazy shit. Ok, I dont mind that. But on the other hand, I HATE with a passion that "a=7" will by default put "a" into the global scope in Javascript. That outweights all the advanced tech in Javascript.

But the language itself is not the most important factor. Most important is all the stuff that surrounds it. When I use PHP, I get new servers within a click with any company i choose. I get the LAMP stack installed by putting an Ubuntu CD into any machine, install it and do "apt-get install php5". On IRC, there are tons of people on freenode#php (there aint many for Ruby for example). And there is a very nice manual at php.net and so on.

And VERY important to me is the whole feeling about how L,A,M and P are implemented. How I can use php on the command line, how I can start mysql from the command line and give it commandlineparameters, how one table is represented in MySql (one file for the structure, one file for the data and one for the indexes), how a database is represented in MySql (a directory)... There are millions of things I like. And they make me feel that the people who wrote L,A,M and P at least partly think like me. Thats cool and makes me productive.

Re: Why PHP won

#52

Post by palish » Sat, Jan 17, 2009, 1:50 PM UTC

hollerith wrote: post #38

icode wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer to stay anonymous. But its probably a very typical Nerd 2.0 story like the ones you hear at this website often. Only that I always stayed in my room and didnt connect to any other web2.0 people. No Blog, no press releases, no ycombinator, no investors. I just wrote some stuff that people want and got some good return from it.

OK, then we don't know if you're really a loser trying to appear successful so we'll listen to you on PHP.

One of the aspects I love about HN is that nobody here has to prove anything to anyone else. Maybe I'm terribly naive, but it feels like lying happens far less here than in other corners of the tubes.

So I believe icode, personally. My feelings are "good for him" and "I hope he enjoys his steak and strippers".

Re: Why PHP won

#53

Post by woodsier » Sat, Jan 17, 2009, 1:56 PM UTC

palish wrote: post #52

hollerith wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, then we don't know if you're really a loser trying to appear successful so we'll listen to you on PHP.

One of the aspects I love about HN is that nobody here has to prove anything to anyone else. Maybe I'm terribly naive, but it feels like lying happens far less here than in other corners of the tubes. So I believe icode, personally. My feelings are "good for him" and "I hope he enjoys his steak and strippers".

True. Usually because it's very easy to identify and call out anyone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

Re: Why PHP won

#54

Post by palish » Sat, Jan 17, 2009, 2:20 PM UTC

woodsier wrote: post #53

palish wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the aspects I love about HN is that nobody here has to prove anything to anyone else. Maybe I'm terribly naive, but it feels like lying happens far less here than in other corners of the tubes. So I believe icode, personally. My feelings are "good for him" and "I hope he enjoys his steak and strippers".

True. Usually because it's very easy to identify and call out anyone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

Very true. And you bring up a good point. If nobody was accountable for posting nonsense, then the discussion would probably contain a lot more of it.

I'm just making a personal choice to give icode the benefit of the doubt. If he's uneasy about broadcasting his difficult struggle to tens of thousands of people, then that's entirely his personal choice, and I'm happy he was willing to share few details about his experience.

Re: Why PHP won

#55

Post by pj » Sat, Jan 17, 2009, 4:13 PM UTC

Exactly what has PHP won? Most IT jobs aren't looking for PHP programmers. They don't make the most money. The most impressive websites are not built in PHP. PHP programmers don't have the most 'skills' so to speak. They aren't the smartest, contrary to their own opinion.

This article is just for a bunch of fan boys to pat themselves on the back for picking PHP.

PHP hasn't won anything.

Re: Why PHP won

#56

Post by rokhayakebe » Sat, Jan 17, 2009, 4:27 PM UTC

icode wrote: post #34

Fuca wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any tips or a blog where you share your ideas for the ones who want to follow your steps?

Im not that good with words. That outburst of delight I wrote above is probably one of the better posts I wrote. Who knows, maybe Im getting better at this. Then I might start a blog one day.

Suspense. Well done Icode.

Re: Why PHP won

#57

Post by pj » Sat, Jan 17, 2009, 10:32 PM UTC

icode wrote: post #51

vlad wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is. The bleeding edge of Web 1.0 or even Web 2.0 development required a LAMP stack. The author says that compared to programming desktop applications (all of the languages he mentioned), the web based stack of MySQL, PHP, and Linux better allowed him to create apps that users wanted. Developers who started with PHP and moved up to Ruby and Python may not realize that older developers who started with…

Not only compared to desktop applications was LAMP a huge advantage, but also compared to Microsofts Web-Technologie (IIS,MS-Server,ASP and later .NET). I was able to create apps the user wanted in the years I used MS technologie, but I did not like it very much. When I discovered LAMP it was like YEAH! and I stayed at home and coded away for weeks and some great stuff came out of this. As for the language (you menti…

There must be something about a language that helps it map to our brains. The creators of the language must be "like" its users in some way for the language to make sense. Or perhaps it's the language that is the mapping between the way the world works and the perception of that world in the minds of the users and the creators.

Re: Why PHP won

#58

Post by pj » Sat, Jan 17, 2009, 10:36 PM UTC

tlrobinson wrote: post #49

vlad wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is. The bleeding edge of Web 1.0 or even Web 2.0 development required a LAMP stack. The author says that compared to programming desktop applications (all of the languages he mentioned), the web based stack of MySQL, PHP, and Linux better allowed him to create apps that users wanted. Developers who started with PHP and moved up to Ruby and Python may not realize that older developers who started with…

I didn't mean to imply PHP couldn't be used successfully (it certainly can), rather the post sounded blissfully ignorant to the point of sarcasm. Perhaps "ignorant" isn't the right word, though ignorant of the "better" languages.

I think I know what you mean. When I read it, I got the same impression. It's not ignorance, because what the post is saying is true. LAMP does do all those things and it is very smart in many ways. But the things listed are equivalently true of other languages and programming platforms as well.

I don't understand though, why PHP is being compared to JS, when they solve different problems.

Re: Why PHP won

#59

Post by pj » Sat, Jan 17, 2009, 10:45 PM UTC

jpcx01 wrote: post #18

I didn't realize that the game was over, and PHP won. Guess I should pack up and go home.

did you realize that no one can be a hacker if they don't think PHP is so l33t that ur just not cool if you don't get it! what do you mean have i ever used java? what does that matter, PHP is awesome, so java sucks.

Re: Why PHP won

#60

Post by pj » Sat, Jan 17, 2009, 10:59 PM UTC

martythemaniak wrote: post #17

To summarize it, I would say PHP is the "get shit done" language. It allows people who are just starting out with programming or people who aren't very technical to focus on what they need to have, rather than on the best way to do something. This is why so many websites (Flickr) and OS pieces of software are in PHP - they focused heavily on what users would be seeing, rather than what developers would be seeing and…

The question remains, "What did PHP win?"

I don't mean to be a jerk here, but just saying why something is good doesn't mean it wins. Lots of languages are good and I could list lots of good things about lots of languages that would make them win.