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ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

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Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#431

Post by freen »

queenkjuul wrote: post #366
UmGuys wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has not. We have never previously sent immigrants to foreign concentration camps. There were internment camps which were bad enough during the war, but we're now kidnapping people, sending them to El Salvador, and locking them up for life.

People here really seem to like ignoring that part for some reason. That is a very real line that had not previously been crossed.

Especially the part about “we imprisoned legal residents of the US in a foreign country without due process and now can’t do anything about it, even though the Supreme Court told us we have to return them to the USA, because, whoops, they are imprisoned in a foreign country!” bit.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#432

Post by mc32 »

wat10000 wrote: post #403
47282847 wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only few countries give birthright to children born on their territory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

If by “only a few” you mean “almost every country in the Americas, plus some more.”

I've known children of US citizens who were presumed Americans though having been born in a south American country. Government kicked them all out for being personae non grata Americans --children not excepted.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#433

Post by elliotec »

AustinDev wrote: post #344
beloch wrote: post #291

Let's do a time warp. It's 2018. Children are being separated from their parents and kept in cages[1]. It's really important to notice that the pictures in this article are not from reporters, leaks or anything of the sort. They were released by Customs and Border Protection and, no doubt, make things look better than they were. What has changed since Trump's first term? Yes, there is now a stronger sensitivity to se…

Let's do another time warp. It's 2000, Bill Clinton is about to wrap up his second term and has deported more people in that term than any president ever at nearly 7,000,000 deportations. Trump barely had 2,000,000 deportations in his first term. Trump's first term was the lowest level of deportations for any administration since Carter. Obama, Reagan, Both Bushes, Clinton and Biden all deported more people every ter…

How many of those included US citizens and legal residents?

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#434

Post by wat10000 »

gradus_ad wrote: post #365
djoldman wrote: post #56

From what research I've seen, the phrasing here should be that non-citizens were deported and chose to bring their US citizen children with them. The children themselves were not deported. This in no way excuses any of the other issues like not allowing contact with legal advocates / attorneys.

[flagged]

We don’t consistently enforce speed limits but the rule of law held up fine. Why does this have to be enforced absolutely?

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#435

Post by neither_color »

47282847 wrote: post #376
mc32 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same happens to US citizens who have/bear children in other countries. Moreover some will do much as assume the children do not have local citizenship but US citizenship despite being born in that non-US country.

Only few countries give birthright to children born on their territory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

It's not a few. It's the majority of two continents.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#436

Post by sanderjd »

OutOfHere wrote: post #157
acdha wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This just dishonest. In the past, the rule of law applied. The law is not perfect or kind, but there was a process where people could defend themselves and egregious violations of U.S. law like this would be avoided. It wouldn’t be the child being “separated from their parents”, it would be the family choosing to go together OR the family choosing to have their child live with relatives. The case we heard about yeste…

That's an unfortunate incident. As per my understanding, the father can technically go get the child back while the child is under the age of 16, using just the child's US birth certificate, but only through the land border. I understand that this can be difficult since traveling from Honduras to a US-Mexico land border crossing could not be too easy.

It's not just "unfortunate", it's also illegal.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#437

Post by mc32 »

neither_color wrote: post #435
47282847 wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only few countries give birthright to children born on their territory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli

It's not a few. It's the majority of two continents.

It's the great minority of countries in the world.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#438

Post by UncleMeat »

whimsicalism wrote: post #205
hartator wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, nothing much changed law-wise. No due process at the borders is a shame both now and before, but hopefully this time there is a willingness to change things. Probably not at the next swing of power.

It is genuinely an extremely difficult challenge to manage illegal crossings if every individual must be processed through the full U.S. legal system which has massive resourcing and backlog problems (3m+ cases). Voters across the political spectrum have made it unmistakably clear — in poll after poll — that they are deeply dissatisfied with the current rate of illegal and asylum-seeking entries. Is there a morally p…

Too bad.

A world where the government gets to say "well it is annoying and expensive to follow the law give people rights so we just won't" is a horror show.

If the people really want a world where people are denied legal process then they can build the popular support for a constitutional amendment. Until then, the government is going to have to pay for this shit.

And we did have a legislative effort to reduce the number of illegal border crossings. Trump scuttled it.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#439

Post by AustinDev »

elliotec wrote: post #433
AustinDev wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's do another time warp. It's 2000, Bill Clinton is about to wrap up his second term and has deported more people in that term than any president ever at nearly 7,000,000 deportations. Trump barely had 2,000,000 deportations in his first term. Trump's first term was the lowest level of deportations for any administration since Carter. Obama, Reagan, Both Bushes, Clinton and Biden all deported more people every ter…

How many of those included US citizens and legal residents?

Best data I can find says it's been on the order of >20 <100 per year over the last ~30 years. Which seems relatively reasonable given the size the denominator. Wrongly deporting legal residents and citizens is obviously awful but there is no such thing as a perfect process.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#440

Post by tomrod »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #392
morkalork wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, businesses caught employing illegal immigrants seemingly don't face any punishment either. Migrants wouldn't enter the US illegally if they couldn't find employment, and they wouldn't find employment if businesses were harshly punished. As it is, everyone is incentivized to keep this cat and mouse game going.

THe FBI/ICE sure cam after a judge that helped an illegal immigrant. I'm sure the FBI/ICE is using the same zeal to go after employers who helped them.

I'm a bit hazy on the story, but wasn't ICE interfering with her court?
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