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I wrote a book called “Crap Towns”. It seemed funny at the time

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Re: I wrote a book called “Crap Towns”. It seemed funny at the time

#251

Post by specialist »

barry-cotter wrote: post #204
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And as with so many modern issues, the housing problem was largely created by Thatcher - her Right to Buy policy.

Right to Buy does not explain why the same trend is visible all over the Anglosphere, from Dublin, Ireland, to Wellington, New Zealand, to Sydney, Australia, to Vancouver, Canada. The people don’t want housing built near them and the politicians listened. Lower supply than demand for decades leads to steadily rising prices. If you want to see the alternative look to Tokyo, Austin or Seattle. Build so much housing tha…

I vaguely recall a criticism of neoliberalism related to the emphasis on home ownership. Something about policy, homes being the primary vehicle for building wealth (vs say pensions), etc. And, ultimately, begetting NIMBYism.

I'm just repeating stuff I've heard. A lot of it feels like unintended consequences.

The NIMBYism part seems pretty clear.

If others have ideas, sources, rebuttals, please share.

Re: I wrote a book called “Crap Towns”. It seemed funny at the time

#252

Post by throwaway2562 »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #187
tomaytotomato wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in some places they have been replaced by artisan bakeries and pop-up boutiques, while in others they have been replaced by charity shops or nothing at all. Charity shops, vape shops (used for money laundering), Turkish Barbers (used for money laundering), Automated Laundrettes (used for money laundering), Car Washes (used for money laundering), Phone shops (used for money laundering), Kebab shops (used for money l…

Banks and privatised utilities (used for money laundering.) Politicians (used for money laundering.) This is the UK's entire economy now - extracting the wealth of the people who work in the UK and moving it to foreign owners. London looks rich because some of the money sticks to the sides while it's passing through, but it's still being siphoned from the provinces through the City and out - to tax havens, foreign ma…

How can invest in money laundering? Serious question. No crypto please, I do have some limits.

Re: I wrote a book called “Crap Towns”. It seemed funny at the time

#253

Post by Earw0rm »

jll29 wrote: post #178
JimDabell wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I was going to say. Back then, a book like this would have been perceived as the UK making fun of itself. Now it’s perceived as being cruel to those less fortunate. I think it’s worth putting into context that the economy was doing great in the era this book was first published and huge progress was being made with things like homelessness, inequality, and poverty. It felt like the country had turned a c…

Good point re: facts versus story. One problem may be that the UK is very London-centric in a way that is markably different from France being Paris-centric. Just my perception (and I know London much better than Paris) is that in France, if you are not in Paris you are seen as "living in the 'province'", but politicians still fight for farmers there etc. In contrast, in the UK, on the surface there is the appearance…

You can walk out of Canary Wharf, within a mile or two you'll see much the same.

Not that the Knightsbridge set ever do.

Heck, even from Knightsbridge itself you don't have to go that far. North End Road is what, two, three miles?

I don't know of anywhere in London that has quite the profound sense of hopelessness you find in Blackpool, but a lot of it's really not great.

Re: I wrote a book called “Crap Towns”. It seemed funny at the time

#254

Post by Earw0rm »

jl6 wrote: post #87
JimDabell wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I was going to say. Back then, a book like this would have been perceived as the UK making fun of itself. Now it’s perceived as being cruel to those less fortunate. I think it’s worth putting into context that the economy was doing great in the era this book was first published and huge progress was being made with things like homelessness, inequality, and poverty. It felt like the country had turned a c…

The Gini coefficient of the UK is about the same now as it was then: https://equalitytrust.org.uk/how-has-inequality-changed/ What has actually changed? A whole bunch of other economic malaise, but also perceptions, amplified to your personal taste by social media.

Wealth has moved from public to private, and consumer spending from high streets to out-of-town shopping centres and Amazon, Deliveroo etc.

Leaving a badly depleted public sphere.

Re: I wrote a book called “Crap Towns”. It seemed funny at the time

#255

Post by Earw0rm »

teamonkey wrote: post #121
jl6 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Gini coefficient of the UK is about the same now as it was then: https://equalitytrust.org.uk/how-has-inequality-changed/ What has actually changed? A whole bunch of other economic malaise, but also perceptions, amplified to your personal taste by social media.

Gini coefficient usually only measures income inequality. Wealth inequality is hard to measure for various reasons but… https://equalitytrust.org.uk/scale-economic-inequality-uk/ “for the UK as a whole, the WID found that the top 0.1% had share of total wealth double between 1984 and 2013, reaching 9%.” “If the wealth of the super rich continues to grow at the rate it has been, by 2035, the wealth of the richest 200…

The super rich aren't the problem. 200 families is too few to have any meaningful effect on the housing market.

By all means tax them til their eyes bleed, but it'll mostly just make people feel better rather than being a useful contribution to public finances.

Re: I wrote a book called “Crap Towns”. It seemed funny at the time

#256

Post by ear7h »

necovek wrote: post #232
top1bobby wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I though I had a decent command of English language, even if I am not a native speaker, but I have no ide what is "naive structuralism" or "overwrought reductionism" in this context. Would any of you care to elaborate? I am serious, I am not familiar much with the UK political scene so can't tie these normal sounding phrases to anything, and would honestly appreciate some help.

This sounds like an intellectual debate but there's nothing of substance being said here lol. casey2 thinks British people today are wrongly (naively) complaining about the rich/powerful/elite (structuralism). top1bobby is making fun of casey2 because the latter is using a lot of big words (overwrought) while _reducing_ complicated politics to a single issue; basically "you think you're smart with fancy words but you are just as bad as the people you complain about (P.S. I can use fancy words too)"

Re: I wrote a book called “Crap Towns”. It seemed funny at the time

#257

Post by rvz »

jdietrich wrote: post #46

Twenty years ago, I think there was still a sense that we were collectively laughing with each other about the dullness of small towns. We all had the same shops - Woolworths, Dixons, Our Price, BHS. We all had a leisure centre that looked like everyone else's leisure centre. Some towns were better off than others, some towns had parts that you were better off avoiding after dark, but the majority of towns belonged t…

But we were promised that "AGI" will save us and humanity and AI will be able to clean up the crap towns and turn them into cool towns.

Re: I wrote a book called “Crap Towns”. It seemed funny at the time

#258

Post by jdietrich »

everfrustrated wrote: post #247
jll29 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point re: facts versus story. One problem may be that the UK is very London-centric in a way that is markably different from France being Paris-centric. Just my perception (and I know London much better than Paris) is that in France, if you are not in Paris you are seen as "living in the 'province'", but politicians still fight for farmers there etc. In contrast, in the UK, on the surface there is the appearance…

Fun UK fact. only >One in five civil servants are based in London (20.1%), down from 20.7% in 2022. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/civil-service-stati...

True, but "civil servant" is a very broad term. A majority of civil servants - a very large majority outside of London - work in Operational Delivery. They work in JobCentres or prisons, they do clerical work in the DVLA or the Passport Office, but they have no actual involvement in or influence over policy. The centre of power is still overwhelmingly in London.

Re: I wrote a book called “Crap Towns”. It seemed funny at the time

#260

Post by amelius »

jdietrich wrote: post #46

Twenty years ago, I think there was still a sense that we were collectively laughing with each other about the dullness of small towns. We all had the same shops - Woolworths, Dixons, Our Price, BHS. We all had a leisure centre that looked like everyone else's leisure centre. Some towns were better off than others, some towns had parts that you were better off avoiding after dark, but the majority of towns belonged t…

> but the majority of towns belonged to the same broad spectrum of bland mediocrity

Isn't it to be expected that the majority of X are average (mediocre)? I mean, you could have a statistically skewed distribution, but would that be very desirable?

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