ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation • Hacker News Board

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#341

Post by unethical_ban » Sat, Apr 26, 2025, 5:14 PM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #205

hartator wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, nothing much changed law-wise. No due process at the borders is a shame both now and before, but hopefully this time there is a willingness to change things. Probably not at the next swing of power.

It is genuinely an extremely difficult challenge to manage illegal crossings if every individual must be processed through the full U.S. legal system which has massive resourcing and backlog problems (3m+ cases). Voters across the political spectrum have made it unmistakably clear — in poll after poll — that they are deeply dissatisfied with the current rate of illegal and asylum-seeking entries. Is there a morally p…

Admit that the current and past efforts to keep people out and quickly deport people failed. And then set up reliable systems of verifying people's citizenship before they can get a job and quickly deport those who should be deported.

Make it easier to work here legally in the US like it used to be in the 90s, and threaten CEOs with jail time if their companies have a pattern of hiring ineligible workers.

And let's be clear, a lot of this border security "crisis" is rooted in racism and Fox news alarmism. The GOP likes having the problem because it keeps the base angry.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#342

Post by generalizations » Sat, Apr 26, 2025, 5:14 PM UTC

Erem wrote: post #279

generalizations wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> American right-wing reeks of elitism Common notion, but based in ignorance. I've found that the left wing is more idealistic, but in the sense that they have chosen not to learn from history and rely on immediate emotional values. The right wing sees second order effects and acts on them. Thus, you get the left calling the right heartless/immoral/racist, and the right calling the left idiots.

> The right wing sees second order effects and acts on them. It’s hard to take this one at good faith. The right wing is very publicly melting down the CDC for glue while the second order effects of a preventable measles epidemic spreads through the country. Is there a more targeted claim you want to make?

The right wing had a big problem with the role the CDC played in the authoritarianism of the COVID era. Now they're melting down a weapon of that authoritarianism. What's more important, preserving civil rights by preventing authoritarianism, or a single epidemic? Gotta think long term here.

I suspect that you merely dislike the authoritarian things the government is currently doing; I dislike that the government is authoritarian. We are not the same.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#343

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Apr 26, 2025, 5:15 PM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #200

DragonStrength wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is some ability to fight. For instance, I don’t think the child of a US citizen should be deported without consent of their citizen parent or a ruling against that parent. I’d like some assurance my own child won’t be disappeared to another country without my consent.

> I don’t think the child of a US citizen should be deported without consent of their citizen parent or a ruling against that parent. Think it should depend on custody. US courts don't just always favor the custody of the citizen parent.

[deleted]

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#344

Post by AustinDev » Sat, Apr 26, 2025, 5:16 PM UTC

beloch wrote: post #291

Let's do a time warp. It's 2018. Children are being separated from their parents and kept in cages[1]. It's really important to notice that the pictures in this article are not from reporters, leaks or anything of the sort. They were released by Customs and Border Protection and, no doubt, make things look better than they were. What has changed since Trump's first term? Yes, there is now a stronger sensitivity to se…

Let's do another time warp.

It's 2000, Bill Clinton is about to wrap up his second term and has deported more people in that term than any president ever at nearly 7,000,000 deportations. Trump barely had 2,000,000 deportations in his first term. Trump's first term was the lowest level of deportations for any administration since Carter. Obama, Reagan, Both Bushes, Clinton and Biden all deported more people every term of their administrations.

This has been going on for a long time. I doubt Trump will beat Clinton's 2nd term. I'd be willing to bet on it if anyone wants to take the other side.

There is so much lack of context in all these discussions. The 'Maryland Man' that everyone is extremely concerned about was first deported by Obama admin in 2009. Remigration is an ugly business, but it has to happen if you want to live in a sovereign nation under the rule of law.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#345

Post by professor_x » Sat, Apr 26, 2025, 5:16 PM UTC

generalizations wrote: post #240

ivape wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people that come here legally don't really build anything of significant value when you compare it to entire immigrant communities. Mexicans, Chinese, Indians, Irish, you name it, they build vast amounts of culture and businesses that get integrated into America. Even if you give me 2 million of the smartest legal immigrants, they will pale in comparison to what large immigrant communities offer to the fabric of…

> American right-wing reeks of elitism Common notion, but based in ignorance. I've found that the left wing is more idealistic, but in the sense that they have chosen not to learn from history and rely on immediate emotional values. The right wing sees second order effects and acts on them. Thus, you get the left calling the right heartless/immoral/racist, and the right calling the left idiots.

Learning from history and still ending up on the side of almost every issue that is considered unspeakably cruel a generation later.

Slavery, segregation, women’s suffrage, child labor protections, labor rights, Social Security, interracial marriage, homosexuality, civil rights legislation, same-sex marriage, the Vietnam War, the Iraq War, prohibition, environmental protections, public education expansion, healthcare reform, voting rights expansion, immigration rights, disability rights, reproductive rights, minimum wage laws, workers’ compensation laws.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#346

Post by ohgr » Sat, Apr 26, 2025, 5:17 PM UTC

kentm wrote: post #339

ohgr wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a friend until recently. Really nice guy. Always looking out for people. Never said a bad word. In the last couple of years he turned into a nasty piece of work jumping on every politicised story out there and treating it as gospel. He alienated everyone around him. It turns out that some people don't have a mind of their own and are waiting for orders. Here is no exception. Look at the foaming at the mouth pra…

I’ve been in tech for about 2 decades now, and the general culture has always been to disregard ethics and social impact. How many times have we heard “We’re just building tools. Tools are apolitical and ethically neutral, it’s how you use them that matters!” It turns out that is actually not the case. Plus the insistence that we can cordon off an area of life and designate it non political is incredibly common but a…

I think a lot of that attitude is self-justification to proceed as they intend without moral compass. Personally I can't do that. Everything we do has a consequence.

I've got a copy of Careless People sitting in front of me I'm scared to read at the moment.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#347

Post by hsuduebc2 » Sat, Apr 26, 2025, 5:17 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #271

bee_rider wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the non-extreme option, if the plan is to kick out the non-citizen parents of US citizen children?

End jus solis. Allow all current parents to stay. There ya go, the humane solution to this.

Can someone who down voted this comment please explain why? Is this because you do not agree with his general stance or because it simplifies and doesn't contribute to the debate?

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#348

Post by thfuran » Sat, Apr 26, 2025, 5:18 PM UTC

kccqzy wrote: post #265

nelsondev wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until a new law is passed, the government and courts have a duty to follow the current law.

You have misunderstood what it means to follow the law. The law guarantees liberties, but doesn't guarantee prosecution. Obama has DACA, which gives young illegal immigrants a deferral on their prosecution. More generally there's the concept of prosecutorial discretion. Have you ever for example driven a car badly, been pulled over, but the cop let you off with just a warning?

Or, for that matter, driven a car badly but not been pulled over at all? Surely in the interest of absolute lawfulness they then proceeded to the nearest police station to demand to be ticketed.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#349

Post by generalizations » Sat, Apr 26, 2025, 5:19 PM UTC

professor_x wrote: post #345

generalizations wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> American right-wing reeks of elitism Common notion, but based in ignorance. I've found that the left wing is more idealistic, but in the sense that they have chosen not to learn from history and rely on immediate emotional values. The right wing sees second order effects and acts on them. Thus, you get the left calling the right heartless/immoral/racist, and the right calling the left idiots.

Learning from history and still ending up on the side of almost every issue that is considered unspeakably cruel a generation later. Slavery, segregation, women’s suffrage, child labor protections, labor rights, Social Security, interracial marriage, homosexuality, civil rights legislation, same-sex marriage, the Vietnam War, the Iraq War, prohibition, environmental protections, public education expansion, healthcare…

>> rely on immediate emotional values....Thus, you get the left calling the right heartless/immoral/racist

> considered unspeakably cruel

You're not disagreeing on any pragmatic basis, just the emotional one. Like I said.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#350

Post by FireBeyond » Sat, Apr 26, 2025, 5:19 PM UTC

scarface_74 wrote: post #152

pge wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current administration has set targets for numbers of people deported(which ICE is currently behind on). That creates an incentive to skip due process in order to get more people deported more quickly (and the awareness that there will no consequences for doing so probably contributes as well)

And while trying to meet those numbers, they are being specifically told not to do mass raids of farms and other business in red states that will hurt Trump voters

Unless it’s Tyson chicken and the undocumented workers are getting a bit “uppitty” about OSHA stuff, then coordinate a raid but when the workers talk about the printed instructions they got from Tyson about how to fill out paperwork if you are undocumented, and what you plan to do about that, “we have no plans to investigate the company”.