Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

aclu.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

261–270 of 908 posts

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#261

Post by ProfessorLayton »

rsyring wrote: post #203
elmerfud wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your last statement is correct. They are just emboldened by the current political environment. Any law enforcement has a problem where all they see is criminals all day everyday, now we know they aren't always criminals, but that's their view point. There should be sufficient checks and balances to ensure that due process is still upheld. What we're seeing now is the lack of checks because law enforcement feels they…

Without qualified immunity, no one in their right mind would want to work in law enforcement. LE would become an easy target for malicious litigation where the cost/effort to defend would, itself, be the weapon, regardless of whether or not the lawsuits were won. LE personnel would have to get insurance, like doctors, which would be crazy expensive and, considering their pay scale, unaffordable. I don't like some of…

Yet other countries get by just fine without giving law enforcement qualified immunity. See Canada for example.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#262

Post by eastbound »

ajross wrote: post #107
djoldman wrote: post #56

From what research I've seen, the phrasing here should be that non-citizens were deported and chose to bring their US citizen children with them. The children themselves were not deported. This in no way excuses any of the other issues like not allowing contact with legal advocates / attorneys.

> From what research I've seen, the phrasing here should be that non-citizens were deported and chose to bring their US citizen children with them. The children themselves were not deported. That seems deliberately Orwellian. What's the "not deported" scenario you're imagining? Literally abandoning your child in a jail somewhere?! It's not like these folks are in hotels, or have access to phones or family. I mean, yi…

[flagged]

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#263

Post by sussmannbaka »

krosaen wrote: post #150
padjo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from whether it is correct in this particular case or not, it’s just bizarre to me that you would post what AI told you. It’s like you’re a booster for dead internet theory. So in addition to half the internet consisting of AIs arguing with each other, we now have to deal with people telling us what AI said.

> Aside from whether it is correct If it's mind boggling to you I would ask chatgpt, it's mind boggling to me that you don't care whether it is correct... But if you generally think chatGPT produces garbage, I guess that makes sense. I disagree, to me it's a good initial query, replacing google. As with google before, it is not authoritative (e.g AI may hallucinate, or google may land you on some SEO bs page), but I…

To use your Google analogy, it’s the equivalent of posting:

> I googled and these are the results (…)

and then copy pasting the first page of results.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#264

Post by EasyMark »

sswatson wrote: post #44
somenameforme wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every day across the world thousands of people are removed from countries around the world for violating immigration laws. Except in cases of where it coincided with criminality, it's always going to be very ugly, because it means somebody had built up a life for themselves somewhere and that is now ended due to them having been born in a different place and then overstayed their permission, or never received such, t…

The phrase "solely one of birthright" suggests the diminishment of the citizenship of certain people. That is not how citizenship works: no one is less of a citizen than anyone else. The most objectionable part here — by far — is not the deportation of the parents, but the deportation of citizens and the lack of due process. The alternative being proposed is that if ICE is going to deport the parents of US citizen ch…

I don't think it was meant to devalue their citizenship, but citizenship doesn't trump their safety or need to be with their parents. The parents are going to be deported for being here illegally, would you have the child be separated and put in a foster/community home? Emotions are important but the only pragmatic solution here is to deport all 3, if your nation's policy is deportation for being here illegally. I agree with that policy in general but not with the US policy of Trump of manhandling illegal aliens or their children. Nor do I agree the lawlessness of what they're doing currently by sending off "suspected gang members" without due process to what amount to torture camps in El Salvador.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#265

Post by kccqzy »

nelsondev wrote: post #192
otde wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is a) bad? Have you considered d) pass a different law? Why are you pretending the law is some immutable thing that we always need to follow, regardless of the situations an unjust law might place someone in if followed?

Until a new law is passed, the government and courts have a duty to follow the current law.

You have misunderstood what it means to follow the law. The law guarantees liberties, but doesn't guarantee prosecution. Obama has DACA, which gives young illegal immigrants a deferral on their prosecution. More generally there's the concept of prosecutorial discretion. Have you ever for example driven a car badly, been pulled over, but the cop let you off with just a warning?

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#266

Post by afpx »

SinjonSuarez wrote: post #227
afpx wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Edited based on comment below) I recognize the optimism, but realistically, without a strong and strategic leader, coordination will collapse into disorganization and infighting. Historical examples like Occupy Wall Street demonstrate that leaderless movements tend to self-sabotage and generate instability without achieving meaningful outcomes.

While it may not have been your intention, the language in a couple sentences of your reply doesn’t leave much room for a continued discussion. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_cliché

Oops - I'll update.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#267

Post by kylehotchkiss »

llm_nerd wrote: post #39
globalnode wrote: post #6

theyve started arresting judges too, rip.

Bondi -- an outrageously partisan hack who is destroying the DOJ -- reached peak irony when she stated that "no one is above the law" in talking about that case. Donald Trump and his administration are on an absolute crime spree[1]. Insider trading, launching shit-coins and engaging in self-dealing, completely disregarding both the constitution and the courts, up to and including the Supreme Court. The US is currentl…

I try to not let it get to me by telling myself they all are just victims of lead poisoning

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#268

Post by oblio »

koolba wrote: post #158
miltonlost wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh wow, what a choice! Imagine, having a gun to your head and saying "but i had a choice!" In no way can you say that these people, given no legal advocates, chose to bring their children, or at least freely chose.

Being eventually forced to decide whether to leave your child behind or take them with you out of the USA is a direct consequence of the choice to illegally enter the country. Are you suggesting we never deport parents under any circumstance? Having a citizen child is not some get-out-deportation-free card.

Americans are extremely cruel.

The real solution to this is to end jus solis.

Separating children from parents is incredibly cruel, inhumane, even.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#269

Post by firesteelrain »

faster wrote: post #207
firesteelrain wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree and proper border control which the previous administration failed to enforce. Step 1 is stop the influx.

The data seem to show that at the end of Biden's term, ICE enforcement actions were very low. But for some reason, the stats page doesn't show Trump's previous term. https://www.ice.gov/statistics Looking at the most recent DHS yearbook (apples and oranges, but the best I can find so far) at https://ohss.dhs.gov/topics/immigration/yearbook and scaling to match the curve at the ICE stats page, it looks like illegal im…

The question we have to ask ourselves is why was ICE not empowered to conduct enforcement ? Why were border crossings up over Biden’s term and then when Trump is elected and comes into office they drop dramatically ?

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#270

Post by tbrownaw »

rsyring wrote: post #203
elmerfud wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your last statement is correct. They are just emboldened by the current political environment. Any law enforcement has a problem where all they see is criminals all day everyday, now we know they aren't always criminals, but that's their view point. There should be sufficient checks and balances to ensure that due process is still upheld. What we're seeing now is the lack of checks because law enforcement feels they…

Without qualified immunity, no one in their right mind would want to work in law enforcement. LE would become an easy target for malicious litigation where the cost/effort to defend would, itself, be the weapon, regardless of whether or not the lawsuits were won. LE personnel would have to get insurance, like doctors, which would be crazy expensive and, considering their pay scale, unaffordable. I don't like some of…

> LE personnel would have to get insurance, like doctors, which would be crazy expensive and, considering their pay scale, unaffordable.

So pay would have to go up?

There'd probably also have to be something where if they were following department policy, then the officer (well, their insurance) can turn around and demand reimbursement from the department.

Post reply on HN