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ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

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Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#121

Post by reseasonable »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #86
pclmulqdq wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this kind of deportation and treatment of prisoners/detainees has been happening forever. This exact behavior has been happening forever, not just a general idea of malfeasance. The current attention on it smacks of politics in a way that is also very inhuman. Remember the "kids in cages" saga?

> No, this kind of deportation and treatment of prisoners/detainees has been happening forever. Another assertion without any justification or data. > Remember the "kids in cages" saga? Yes, of course, and that's the point. There was huge outcry then, and that cruel policy was implemented by the same person responsible for this policy. It doesn't make sense to say "this has been happening forever" and then bring up a…

The treatment part has happened for decades, Las Hieleras is one of many examples. But the deporting citizens part hasn’t happened for about 70 years since Operation Wetback which was nearly an identical playbook of today.

Mass visa revocations happened about 50 years ago since the Iran Hostage Crisis. And a few other events over the 20th century reflect well with today like Japanese internment camps. CECOT out does Gitmo and Angel Island, but damn, we just do a lot of fascist and unjust stuff as a nation.

The 1880’s resulted in us switching our attention from Native Americans to immigrants and we never really let off the gas on that front.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#123

Post by afpx »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #111
afpx wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, there are some possibilities. For example, if a strong resistance leader emerged. But, are there any good candidates for that role? I can't think of any.

Things like this are stopped by movements, not individual heroes. There are almost certainly organizations in your area already working against this. No one is coming to save us. But if anyone does it is the people who were already trying to, bolstered by people like you who see it now. Get in there.

(Edited based on comment below)

I recognize the optimism, but realistically, without a strong and strategic leader, coordination will collapse into disorganization and infighting. Historical examples like Occupy Wall Street demonstrate that leaderless movements tend to self-sabotage and generate instability without achieving meaningful outcomes.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#124

Post by apical_dendrite »

sanderjd wrote: post #63
pclmulqdq wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of those statuses are called "visas" and they have been around for a while. Obama's innovation was giving a weird form of status ("we know you broke the law and we aren't enforcing it") to people who broke the law when crossing the border. Most people with a non-illegal and non-citizen status are supposed to apply for that status before crossing the border.

This gets at another portion of the answer to the "what's your alternative suggestion?" question: I'd suggest Congress pass laws, rather than presidents making stuff up, illegally. This is clearly not a partisan point! Every president in my voting lifetime - Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden - has made up immigration law while Congress sat on its thumbs.

I agree with you.

I think there has to be a reasonable solution that gives legal status to the guy who's been here for 20 years and is making a positive contribution to society, but doesn't allow someone to show up and exploit loopholes to stay forever.

I think a reasonable compromise would look something like this:

* Make it much easier for people to get temporary visas for the kinds of jobs where we need migrant workers.

* Provide a pathway to citizenship for people who have been in this country for a very long time and are contributing to society.

* Make it very difficult for people to come to the US without a visa - e.g. make people apply for asylum outside of the US. Stop issuing temporary protected status to huge blocks of migrants.

Unfortunately, political polarization has basically made it impossible for Congress to solve real problems.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#125

Post by enlightenedfool »

llm_nerd wrote: post #39
globalnode wrote: post #6

theyve started arresting judges too, rip.

Bondi -- an outrageously partisan hack who is destroying the DOJ -- reached peak irony when she stated that "no one is above the law" in talking about that case. Donald Trump and his administration are on an absolute crime spree[1]. Insider trading, launching shit-coins and engaging in self-dealing, completely disregarding both the constitution and the courts, up to and including the Supreme Court. The US is currentl…

[flagged]

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#126

Post by yuliyp »

southernplaces7 wrote: post #108
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because it's always been happening. I don't like this kind of response because it's basically kind of an assumption, and you don't really give any evidence for it. On one hand, sure, abuses by people in positions of power have always happened, so if you're just making a general argument that enforcement authorities abuse power, I mean yeah, human nature. But this article is making some specific points: 1. Those who…

>I don't like this kind of response because it's basically kind of an assumption, and you don't really give any evidence for it. Whether you like it or not, it has indeed been happening for a long time, and under multiple administrations from either party. If you're interested in the tragedy of it all enough to care, then go look these cases up instead of first accusing someone of lying because they might be smearing…

I guess the question is how frequent it's been. A big part of Trumpism is taking sketchy practices that used to be exceptional and turning them into standard operating procedure, and then claiming "oh look others did this before"

I mean, look at Hillary Clinton's emails, extorting of lawfirms, big tech, etc, his ignoring of court orders, etc. All are things that you can look at and say "he's not the first to do this" and be completely correct, but completely missing the point that he's doing it waay more aggressively.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#127

Post by [deleted] »

sfasdfasd wrote: post #118
miltonlost wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is less accurate. It erases the US citizenship of the children by being born here with the 14th Amendment, and subtly implies that they AREN'T citizens and are just "U.S.-Born" as if the 14th Amendment didn't apply (like Trump wants).

"U.S Born" == "U.S Citizenship" would be the default assumption of any rational, thinking person. You can add more words to say the same thing but it only ends up being annoying.

[deleted]

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#128

Post by nullstyle »

sfasdfasd wrote: post #118
miltonlost wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is less accurate. It erases the US citizenship of the children by being born here with the 14th Amendment, and subtly implies that they AREN'T citizens and are just "U.S.-Born" as if the 14th Amendment didn't apply (like Trump wants).

"U.S Born" == "U.S Citizenship" would be the default assumption of any rational, thinking person. You can add more words to say the same thing but it only ends up being annoying.

> "U.S Born" == "U.S Citizenship" would be the default assumption of any rational, thinking person

Not in trump’s america, not if they have their way, and this nonsense wordplay is part of it. Look at the statements around a third term; those arent jokes

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#129

Post by tuan »

nikanj wrote: post #94
somenameforme wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every day across the world thousands of people are removed from countries around the world for violating immigration laws. Except in cases of where it coincided with criminality, it's always going to be very ugly, because it means somebody had built up a life for themselves somewhere and that is now ended due to them having been born in a different place and then overstayed their permission, or never received such, t…

The previous time the big mad that Obama was (supposedly) not born on the US soil, now the problem is that someone was born in the US. Is there an acceptable way for POC to get citizenship anymore, if it's not by inheritance and it's not by being born in the US?

5mil for a gold card and expedited path to citizenship I’ve heard.

Re: ICE Deports 3 U.S. Citizen Children Held Incommunicado Prior to the Deportation

#130

Post by [deleted] »

UncleMeat wrote: post #66
somenameforme wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every day across the world thousands of people are removed from countries around the world for violating immigration laws. Except in cases of where it coincided with criminality, it's always going to be very ugly, because it means somebody had built up a life for themselves somewhere and that is now ended due to them having been born in a different place and then overstayed their permission, or never received such, t…

> and the children's citizenship was solely one of birthright My citizenship is solely that way too, even though generations of my ancestors were also citizens. Unless you personally naturalized then your citizenship is solely by birthright. The vast majority of US citizens are this way. Insisting that this is somehow worth less in terms of legal protections is just frankly wrong. Imagine you said this for other circ…

[deleted]
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