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Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing

newatlas.com

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Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing

#71

>Not only does the system know exactly where you are at every moment, it knows who your friends are, what they are interested in, and who you are spending time with This actually makes sense of an anecdote a colleague uses to say that he thinks his phone is listening to him. I am a keen skier. He used to ski a lot, but hasn't been for several years. Around the start of ski season this year, we talked about my plans t…

Or just ski ads go out when ski season starts and he only noticed that he saw one because you had the conversation.

Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing

#73
post #46
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's impossible to use this covertly. *Unless there's a zero-day that allows it.

Burning a zero-day like that for targeted advertising seems extremely unlikely to me.

I think you missed the point GP was making. I believe they meant the vector might come from that kind of SDK. Not that someone who had a zero day to allow surreptitiously recording phone screens would use it for that purpose.

Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing

#74
That was a stupid study. Phones know if they are being used - the phones for 3 days around ads is meaningless.

Tracking isn't all the time - that would be tough. They do record stuff when you doing certain things tho...

It's not impossible at all, actually it's rather easy if you have access to their actual online activity too.

Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing

#75

>Not only does the system know exactly where you are at every moment, it knows who your friends are, what they are interested in, and who you are spending time with This actually makes sense of an anecdote a colleague uses to say that he thinks his phone is listening to him. I am a keen skier. He used to ski a lot, but hasn't been for several years. Around the start of ski season this year, we talked about my plans t…

You were probably in the same place using the same IP address, and both browsed - doesn’t matter which sites you both visited, the trackers have you. You might have shown him where you were going. Ad trackers thought “I’ll serve ski ads to people that were on that IP address because somebody else looked at xyz”.

Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing

#76
Does anyone recall the national discussions surrounding what constituted metadata following 9/11 when ThinThread and Trailblazer were brought to public attention?

I also recall reading about members of the TIA "Total Information Awareness" program leaving to join advisory boards for rising social media platforms, Facebook most notably. These weren't tinfoil opeds in fringe outlets, but regular reporting by journalists published in trusted local newspapers.

Are there any outlets left who aren't part of consolidated media groups that can or do still track and report on movements like this? I've having trouble finding original articles that haven't been "revised for historical accuracy" or hidden behind paywalls of the few entities that remain.

Edit: For context, I was looking for the earliest articles about Google citing legal justification for scanning the contents of emails under a favorable interpretation of metadata that allowed for tokenization by an automated process (ie- the contents were not read by a human or made personally identifiable, which met the letter of the law). It follows that the same justification is not limited to any source or data type, but I couldn't recall any more recent reporting or statements from companies over the last 10-15 years, or, the "don't break Google" era.

Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing

#77
At the time I am typing this, the title on the page is:

""Your phone isn’t secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing""

Which is presently also the title on this post.

Then as I read it becomes clear that it is merely focusing on Facebook.

However the confusion that may stem from "Your phone isn’t secretly listening to you"

The blog post never attempts to establish that your phone is not listening to you, just that some companies may not be going it.

The truth is that your phone may well be listening to you . There is plenty of malware / spywear that uses exploits to achieve it.

Like the NSO group¹.

Tools to do so can be bouught on the malware market from other sources as well and we must assume that Mossad, NSA, and other major intellitence agencies have tools that exceed what you can buy on the open market.

You phone may aboslutely be listening to you. but probably it is not.

¹

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2023-01-24/nso-group... https://www.britannica.com/topic/Pegasus-spyware https://citizenlab.ca/2016/08/million-dollar-dissident-iphon...

https://newatlas.com/computers/smartphone-listening-conversa...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2023-01-24/nso-group...

Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing

#78

> "Apps were automatically taking screenshots of themselves and sending them to third parties. In one case, the app took video of the screen activity and sent that information to a third party.” > Out of over 17,000 Android apps examined, more than 9,000 had potential permissions to take screenshots. And a number of apps were found to actively be doing so, taking screenshots and sending them to third-party sources. W…

I doubt there's a specific "ability to send surreptitious screen shots to developer" permission. It must be a combination of permissions: one for making network connections, another for capturing the screen without making it obvious to the user, etc.

For apps that want to send their own screens to third parties, there's no permission needed or possible. The app is drawing the content to the screen. It knows what the content is.

Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing

#79

That was a stupid study. Phones know if they are being used - the phones for 3 days around ads is meaningless. Tracking isn't all the time - that would be tough. They do record stuff when you doing certain things tho... It's not impossible at all, actually it's rather easy if you have access to their actual online activity too.

I think it would be interesting to try to do a "constructive debunking" - try to build a system yourself that uses a tampered phone and constantly records and transcribes all audio around it, without being obviously detectable by battery drain, CPU usage or network traffic.

Variants/difficulty levels could be about: capture everything, or just keywords? What if you have a million keywords? Transcribe on-device or in the cloud? Can you do it just inside an app or do you need OS support/root access? Etc etc.

Would be interesting to see what can be done at all and how easy or difficult it would be to detect.

Re: Your phone isn't secretly listening to you, but the truth is more disturbing

#80
Television, not phone, but YouTube sure intrigued me at minimum yesterday. First, it revealed pretty clearly that even with history turned off, it will use the history of other accounts accessed from the same IP to serve recommendations anyway. Without history, it turns off the home page recommendations, but when I ran a search, it showed me completely unrelated videos from a rock climbing channel my wife had watched on another account. I have never watched any rock climbing content on this account.

The second incident was the "listening to you thing," though. Not on the phone, but on a smart television. Exterminator was there to do the quarterly spray of my house and I was showing him scars from when I fell off a skateboard trying to bomb a hill I couldn't handle late last year, talking about what happened, and not five minutes later I turn on the television, open YouTube, and the very first recommendation on my wife's account is a video of a guy falling off his longboard at 50 MPH. Not like it's some kind of secret that we both skate and I watch a lot of downhill videos on this account, but I have never once specifically searched for, watched, or even been recommended a video of a crash, until they decide to do so five minutes after I was talking about it in front of that television.

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